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Early 2002tii Discussion


oh2ryan

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FAQers,

 

It doesn't appear that there is a thread dedicated to discussion of the early 2002tii's. I see some helpful bits scattered about the general discussion, but I want to know more. I am curious about known early examples still in circulation. Specifically, I would like to know how many 1971 2002tii's there may be in the US, especially those rolling off the line in the first month of production.

 

Any supplemental details about these tii's would be helpful. Things like VIN, country of origin, color combinations, unique options, and any photos if the example is in original condition. I understand that there were very tiny changes based on country of delivery, please share!

 

I am restoring my Italian 04/71 to factory specs and I do not want to overlook any nuances during the reassembly - once the car is back from paint.

 

Thank you in advance for sharing your wisdom.

 

-Ryan

-Ryan

05/87 M3 Hennarot

04/71 2002tii Baikal

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9 minutes ago, Flunder said:

Compression ratio 10:1

Rear end ratio 3:45

 

Diana grill treatments seem to have been popular with the Italian distributor...

 

I went back to factory fresh and had the headlight bucket frames replaced since they’re trimmed to allow for the quad headlamps to fit. Someone did a nice job though with the wiring but still made it convenient to return back to stock. 

-Ryan

05/87 M3 Hennarot

04/71 2002tii Baikal

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Ryan--if you're looking to refurbish that leather covered steering wheel without having to replace the leather, visit a shoe shop and buy a bottle of "edge dressing."  It's a leather dye that's used to re-black the edge of leather shoe soles (a necessary item for any military person to keep his shoes inspection-ready).  It'll re-dye that worn leather black, and won't come off on your hands once it drys (after 30 seconds or so).  

 

Cool looking wheel, BTW--not fitted to US tii's--nor was that 3.45 diff.

 

mke

 

'69 Nevada sunroof-Wolfgang-bought new
'73 Sahara sunroof-Ludwig-since '78
'91 Brillantrot 318is sunroof-Georg Friederich 
Fiat Topolini (Benito & Luigi), Renault 4CVs (Anatole, Lucky Pierre, Brigette) & Kermit, the Bugeye Sprite

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11 minutes ago, mike said:

Ryan--if you're looking to refurbish that leather covered steering wheel without having to replace the leather, visit a shoe shop and buy a bottle of "edge dressing."  It's a leather dye that's used to re-black the edge of leather shoe soles (a necessary item for any military person to keep his shoes inspection-ready).  It'll re-dye that worn leather black, and won't come off on your hands once it drys (after 30 seconds or so).  

 

Cool looking wheel, BTW--not fitted to US tii's--nor was that 3.45 diff.

 

mke

 

 

Sadly the stitching was beyond repair and my upholstery guy re wrapped it already. I wanted to preserve it but it was rougher than that picture makes it look. Thanks for the tip though!

Edited by oh2ryan

-Ryan

05/87 M3 Hennarot

04/71 2002tii Baikal

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7 hours ago, oh2ryan said:

It doesn't appear that there is a thread dedicated to discussion of the early 2002tii's. I see some helpful bits scattered about the general discussion, but I want to know more. I am curious about known early examples still in circulation. Specifically, I would like to know how many 1971 2002tii's there may be in the US, especially those rolling off the line in the first month of production.

 

There aren't threads probably because there aren't that many early euro cars in the US.  Since I have a euro tii also, I tend to take note of them when I see them.  There aren't a whole lot here in the US for obvious reasons - you could buy the same car here from a dealer, so why go through the hassle to import one in?  

 

So in your quest for info, I think you are actually looking for a few things:

 

>Standard equip and/or options specific to Italy.  The front turn sigs are different for Italy, for example.  I've seen on this board the options brochures, so you can look at those.  My car has a radio and floor mats that you only see in Euro cars, for example.  It had the mud flaps, too, when I bought it.  

 

>Early '72 tii production vs. later.  This is pretty well documented.  

 

>General euro tii vs. US version info, since there are differences between the two.  I have a run-down of those things, but they are pretty easy to find via search.  Off the top, it's the low fuel light, speedo in KPH, steering wheel, rear gear, chrome wiper arms, gas tank vented out trunk floor, seat fabric is sometimes different like yours, usually H4 lights, no side marker lights (or reflectors on the rear of the car), euro plate holder, higher compression ratio, different distributor (I believe), usually no rear bumper over-riders, that sort of thing.  

 

That's how I would look at it. 

 

This book is more or less written from the euro perspective, so it is helpful:  https://www.amazon.com/Restorers-Reference-BMW-2002-1968-1976/dp/0760327963

 

Scott

 

 

 

 

Edited by saaron

02ing since '87

'72 tii Euro  //  '21 330i x //  '14 BMW X5  //  '12 VW Jetta GLI

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This '72 Euro Tii came up for sale near me five years ago.  I snapped a few photos  when I responded to the seller's ad for spare parts.  The lack of bumper over-riders is a Euro thing, no?  (although a pair of fronts came with the parts for some reason and the rear bumper has them installed).

 

This car was far from original though.  (front turn signals, for example)

085.thumb.JPG.63f16b955829270dec0d5978437fd0b6.JPG

The original seats were very similar to the ones in the second post.  The cloth had been redone on these.

091.thumb.JPG.adba340890ec1840280e8e5d7651f3bd.JPG

I believe the lack of dash lettering/labeling, with little symbols on the knobs themselves is a Euro thing, when compared to US cars.  Are chrome heater control plates Euro only?  No lettering there either.

082.thumb.JPG.4ee6600fc8bd9c7db2afa352aaeb3d22.JPG083.thumb.JPG.158eb90c276168a7a8d8da9a28826c29.JPG

The rear license plate holder is different too, along with the lights on the bumper, of course. 

074.thumb.JPG.5dee2156e4d219d7fe8688bdb338f5eb.JPG

 

I am sure all of this has been mentioned on the FAQ, or how would I know it?!  :) 

 

I don't have much to add to the thread, but I thought I'd include a few photos just for the fun of it. 

Tom

 

Edited by '76mintgrün'02
  • Like 2

     DISCLAIMER 

I now disagree with some of the timing advice I have given in the past.  I misinterpreted the distributor curves in the Blue Book. 

I've switched from using ported-vacuum to manifold, with better results. 

I apologize for spreading misinformation.  

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5 minutes ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

I don't have much to add to the thread, but I thought I'd include a few photos just for the fun of it. 

Tom

 

That car was for sale again at PVGP.  It has been sold a number of times in the past few years.  

 

You are correct re the lack of labeling on the dash.  The heater / vent plates could be different, too.  

 

Scott

DSC_1006.JPG

DSC_1007.JPG

  • Like 1

02ing since '87

'72 tii Euro  //  '21 330i x //  '14 BMW X5  //  '12 VW Jetta GLI

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11 minutes ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

This '72 Euro Tii came up for sale near me a five years ago.  I snapped a few photos  when I responded to the seller's ad for spare parts.  The lack of bumper over-riders is a Euro thing, no?  (although a pair of fronts came with the parts for some reason and the rear bumper has them installed).

 

This car was far from original though.  (front turn signals, for example)

085.thumb.JPG.63f16b955829270dec0d5978437fd0b6.JPG

The original seats were very similar to the ones in the first post. 

 

I believe the lack of dash lettering/labeling, with little symbols on the knobs themselves is a Euro thing, when compared to US cars.  Are chrome heater control plates Euro only?  No lettering there either.

 

The rear license plate holder is different too, along with the lights on the bumper, of course. 

 

I don't have much to add to the thread, but I thought I'd include a few photos just for the fun of it. 

Tom

 

 It's still around and for sale this month. It's location changes from TN to PA!!

398049165_27087595b.thumb.jpg.5fef4ab6ed3433bcd7239b7714196f27.jpg1472509017_27087595c.thumb.jpg.b644bb280066b05e435e04e3a74cb86d.jpg

Les

'74 '02 - Jade Touring (RHD)

'76 '02 - Delk's "Da Beater"

FAQ Member #17

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Were there engine bay photos in the recent sales ad?  I'll bet a bit's changed in the past five years.

075.thumb.JPG.79be7614b61ae53c9049babbb6ba6d24.JPG

When I saw it, it had the MSD running through a modified Pinto distributor, which I thought was interesting; although not very relevant to this thread....

078.thumb.JPG.ed67be1eb5fcd533ea3bb6287eb1082a.JPG

 

(it looks like the oil pressure wire's come off the sender... even less relevant)

I do remember watching it sell on BAT, a year or so after it moved south to CA.

 

Tom

  • Like 1

     DISCLAIMER 

I now disagree with some of the timing advice I have given in the past.  I misinterpreted the distributor curves in the Blue Book. 

I've switched from using ported-vacuum to manifold, with better results. 

I apologize for spreading misinformation.  

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1 hour ago, mike said:

Ryan--if you're looking to refurbish that leather covered steering wheel without having to replace the leather, visit a shoe shop and buy a bottle of "edge dressing."  It's a leather dye that's used to re-black the edge of leather shoe soles (a necessary item for any military person to keep his shoes inspection-ready).  It'll re-dye that worn leather black, and won't come off on your hands once it drys (after 30 seconds or so).  

 

Cool looking wheel, BTW--not fitted to US tii's--nor was that 3.45 diff.

 

mke

 

Mike, regarding this wheel, my old 1970 ti had the exact wheel, and they are not leather covered originally. It looks and feels like leather but it is coated rubber of some kind. On mine the  material had come loose in a few spots, so I used a hypodermic needle to inject some 2 stage glue into it and let it sit. Worked perfectly.

ti wheel.JPG

ti dash.JPG

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55 minutes ago, 02Les said:

It's still around and for sale this month. It's location changes from TN to PA!!

 

Yes it went from TN to PA.  I talked to the seller after PVGP.  I don't think much has changed with it at all.  He said he was going to go full restoration on it, then found a Porsche he liked better.  Sounds like he might have had a few things done to the tii, but not a lot.  

 

I know Rob Siegel thought about buying it - maybe even a couple of times.  I showed him the "for sale" sign pics of the car (the ones I posted above) when we were sitting at the bar at PVGP and he was like, "over it".  

 

OK I'm stopped the thread hijack now.  Enough with the Golfie.  

 

One source of info for Euro tiis is to talk with Touring owners.  There are probably more tii version Tourings here in the US than regular tiis, since you could not get the Touring here; there was some incentive to bring them in.  

 

Scott

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02ing since '87

'72 tii Euro  //  '21 330i x //  '14 BMW X5  //  '12 VW Jetta GLI

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53 minutes ago, TonyHavana said:

Mike, regarding this wheel, my old 1970 ti had the exact wheel, and they are not leather covered originally. It looks and feels like leather but it is coated rubber of some kind. On mine the  material had come loose in a few spots, so I used a hypodermic needle to inject some 2 stage glue into it and let it sit. Worked perfectly.

ti wheel.JPG

ti dash.JPG

 

Yes, the sport wheels were originally “pleather” (plastic leather, or, more commonly, some vinyl-rubber thing), both in their European form — long oval perforations of each spoke — and their U.S.-spec form — long oval indentations on each spoke.

 

I have a U.S. version to put on the ‘73. I’ll probably have it recovered in leather because the two shops I contacted, in response to my inquiry regarding recovering the wheel in vinyl, said something akin to “Say what?.....We’ve never done one in vinyl. It’s not going to be any cheaper, if you’re trying to save money. It’s not going to look very good, the sewn edges of vinyl are not pretty...”  Their last point is actually appropriate, the original “pleather” wasn’t truly stitched.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited by Conserv
  • Like 2

1976 2002 Polaris, 2742541 (original owner)

1973 2002tii Inka, 2762757 (not-the-original owner)

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