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kaptanoglu

Yoko S-Drives - Tire hardening question

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While I keep a set of original steelies, I also have some 15" Panasports with Yoko S-Drives that I put on 4 years/15K miles ago.  They were sticky out of the gate, but I now find myself slip/sliding around with some regularity.  That seems like a very short life for a tire.  Does that sound nuts to you, or is 4 years typical for a daily driver tire?

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I talked to both Tire Rack and a mechanic that I trust, and they both concur that they are likely heat cycled past their sticky point, and four years is fair value.

 

Out of a desire to maximize wet traction, I am trying out the Continental ExtremeContact Sports in 205/50/15.  On its surface, that is a big tire for this car, but the actual dimensions are almost identical to the 195/55/15 S-Drive's they will be replacing (and quite a bit skinnier at the tread than the BFG G-Force Comp 2's in 195/55/15 that I couldn't use because of rubbing).

 

My only experience with the Conti's is on an endurance racing car, and they are awesome in the rain.  I will give a review once I drive them a bit.  The first spirited drive will be on the Terry Sayther drive in a week or so, and the low water crossings should be a good test of wet traction 🙂

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(edited)

i have been using those contis (the "DW" version, not the "DWS" version) on my e46 for many years, multple sets.  great tires.

 

4yrs/15k miles is not a short life for a summer performance tire.  soft compounds don't last long...they ain't all-seasons.

 

the contis won't last long either.

Edited by mlytle
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Thanks, Marshall.  I am getting the summers as well.  While I drive in the rain all the time, Sputter will stay in the garage if the water switches phases. 

 

As for wear, this is my first experience having tires “age out.”  Earlier on I have had long commutes and (at least on the E36 M3) would smoke a set a year.  I am fine swapping them out when it’s time, but didn’t know when that was. 

 

After another slip-slidey drive home, I am ready for my stickies to get here. 

 

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Same results with my Yoko S-Drives, JJ... I would buy them again, though.  I changed over to some 13" Borranis and put the Pirelli Cinturato tires on them... a very nice set up, but I can tell the Pirellis are quite soft.

 

Ed

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They make good 'instructor car' tires at this point-

3 hard, sidewise laps, and they'll have enough stick to be fun.

 

And not kill the nice, all- weather tires you use to commute.

 

t

bummed his commuter now uses bigger tires than the race car-

what can I use aged- out rains for now?

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5 hours ago, kaptanoglu said:

While I keep a set of original steelies, I also have some 15" Panasports with Yoko S-Drives that I put on 4 years/15K miles ago.  They were sticky out of the gate, but I now find myself slip/sliding around with some regularity.  That seems like a very short life for a tire.  Does that sound nuts to you, or is 4 years typical for a daily driver tire?

Consider yourself lucky. Now you can go around corners at the limit of adhesion at a much safer speed and you have a much better chance of survival when things go wrong.

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Just a bit of visual tire humor:

 

Saturday I saw a Mini Moke at the Post Office with Yokohama 008s on it.

 

It had a fringe top, so you know it's a serious Autocross contender.

 

While not a rain tire, I prefer the Bridgestone RE71a over the S-Drives, they are just too "squishy" on the sidewalls; I took them back.

 

Cheers!

 

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1 hour ago, TobyB said:

They make good 'instructor car' tires at this point-

3 hard, sidewise laps, and they'll have enough stick to be fun.

 

I gave that up when 250 hp cars turned into 500hp cars.  I really value what instructors do and enjoy teaching, but the math isn’t good.  Street Survival is fun with a lower chance of a dramatic ride into concrete. 

 

1 hour ago, allbim said:

Consider yourself lucky. Now you can go around corners at the limit of adhesion at a much safer speed and you have a much better chance of survival when things go wrong.

 

Lucky enough in the dry, I suppose, but in the wet, right now, rain drives like ice, and that’s no bueno. 

 

To you point, skinny tires are fun for playing, but I actually need to STOP from time to time. 

 

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Hmm, yeah- I usually get the 2002 driver or the old 912 or something

because 'you race an antique, you'll know what to do'

 

On the other hand, shells are stronger, airbags work, and seatbelt pretensioners help, too.

And I've gotten better about 'brake, Brake BRAKE BRAKE!!!'

earlier and more proactively.

 

We all have to do our own math, I guess....

 

Even so, track days on old tires can be lotsa fun...

 

t

 

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14 hours ago, kaptanoglu said:

To you point, skinny tires are fun for playing, but I actually need to STOP from time to time. 

 

In broad general terms, a wider tire will not have any larger contact patch than a properly sized "skinny" tire due to the fact that the tire will compress under the same weight of the car at that corner. What WILL change is the shape of that contact patch e.g. under braking or cornering.

 

The wet performance of a tire is as much or more due to the tread pattern and the ability to evacuate water for hydroplaning purposes, such as "instant" for say puddles or consistent such as a really wet road. The composition of the rubber vs. the tarmac is also a great factor.

 

A strictly great rain tire will probably have similar characteristics as a dedicated snow tire.

 

Unfortunately, we must choose between one or the other for optimal performance or compromise.

 

The reality with '02s nowadayze is that you (we) just don't drive a whole lot of miles to wear out the tread; I have a set of Dunlops from 15 years ago on my rims and the car has been in storage for the past 12 years. So, the expense is just something you have to deal with, but I don't agree with the "4 year" rule.

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23 minutes ago, Einspritz said:

A strictly great rain tire will probably have similar characteristics as a dedicated snow tire.

 

For me, grip in the rain is my primary consideration.  I can have fun with just about any tire in the dry, but really want to keep the front in front when it’s wet, and want to be able to STOP.

 

I’ll be interested to see how these Contis do. As I noted before, I have had them on the track in adverse conditions, and they did great, even with our feet really in it. 

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Quote

In broad general terms, a wider tire will not have any larger contact patch than a properly sized "skinny" tire due to the fact that the tire will compress under the same weight of the car at that corner.

 Are you referring to the patch getting 'wider and shorter'?

In THEORY, that's counteracted by running the wider tires at a lower pressure (to a point)

to account for the lower unit loading of the wider patch.  

At a certain point, lowering the pressure too far reduces unit pressure in the center of the tire too much,

and reduces widewall stiffness too far.

Then, yes, you get 'too much tire' and can't use it all, but:

that's USUALLY a power or suspension geometry problem, though-

look at how wide F1 tires got when they were unregulated... and they kept going faster...

 

What does happen to a skinnier tire is it gets hotter, faster, and reaches higher equilibrium temperatures.

So if you can't get your tires over 160f, yeah, you have too much rubber.

Usually, what happens tho, is that you overheat the skinnier tire sooner...

 

And a whole lotta other things...  fun discussion, though!

 

heh

 

t

 

 

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