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Timing chain tensioner


Leonel

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18 hours ago, Leonel said:

But should have a steel ball between the spring and the tensioner also?

 

Steel ball?  What?  Show me one.  I've never seen a steel ball in the ones I've dismantled or assembled.

 

Definition:  Tensioner (11311262273) is the rubber coated arm adjacent the chain that pushes (the chain) to remove the slack.

The following pictures shows a new tensioner and the piston relative to each other. New chain as well.

Burp_Tensioner1.jpg.536630b94b0ee1a73fdcb24c9cffcbac.jpgBurp_Tensioner2.jpg.a844b371e18c913b1772aed11dda6ed5.jpg

 

In your picture it appears as though your chain/sprocket/tensioner surfaces may be so worn that the piston is extended to its max.

 

 

 

Edited by PaulTWinterton

73 Inka Tii #2762958

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32 minutes ago, PaulTWinterton said:

Steel ball?  What?  Show me one.  I've never seen a steel ball in the ones I've dismantled or assembled.

07119986250

Ball

5MM III

Plug the number in RealOEM and take a look.

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A radiator shop is a good place to take a leak.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing but I know I'm really good at it.

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There is indeed a little check ball valve, inside the piston behind the ‘shoe’ of the black tensioner pad.

I adjusted my valves yesterday and struggled to get ya a good representative pic on my phone, but it’s hard given then upper cover and the IPhone’s tendency to focus on the largest, nearest object.

But it should help ya gauge what kinda distance should be visible on a fresh motor with all new timing kit (less than 3000km)

ae60bdb9698c8193c7aa181d1c41939d.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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And as for a 'burping procedure', all you need is to fill the tensioner's little pool full of oil, and with a flathead screwdriver against the shoe piece, pump the piston in and out of it's bore. It'll burp up air bubbles as it sucks in oil behind the piston, make sure you keep it's pool full during the process or you risk sucking in more air.

 

eventually it'll run outa' air to burp, and with firm up rock-solid. 

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On 10/4/2018 at 11:14 AM, Leonel said:

What could happen to make the chain like this? 

 

Wear and stretch but also shaving the head surface too much would result the same issue. Meaning that if the head is resurfaced before less wear is enough for tensioner stroke to run out.

Racing is Life - everything before and after is just waiting!

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6 hours ago, 2002Scoob said:

And as for a 'burping procedure', all you need is to fill the tensioner's little pool full of oil, and with a flathead screwdriver against the shoe piece, pump the piston in and out of it's bore. It'll burp up air bubbles as it sucks in oil behind the piston, make sure you keep it's pool full during the process or you risk sucking in more air.

 

When does this procedure need to happen?  Only when you replace the chain and the guides?

 

Scott

02ing since '87

'72 tii Euro  //  '21 330i x //  '14 BMW X5  //  '12 VW Jetta GLI

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1 hour ago, saaron said:

When does this procedure need to happen?  Only when you replace the chain and the guides?

Only when the tensioner plug is removed and the oil drains out.  It refills from the pool

(Or maybe when you roll the car over and the pool goes dry)

Edited by jimk
  • Haha 1

A radiator shop is a good place to take a leak.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing but I know I'm really good at it.

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9 hours ago, jimk said:

Only when the tensioner plug is removed and the oil drains out.  It refills from the pool

(Or maybe when you roll the car over and the pool goes dry)

 

? Hopefully nobody's rolling their car over. 

On the topic of the 5mm ball,  finally I understand that it is part of the piston.   I thought it was loose as depicted in the diagrams.  Shaking the piston confirms its presence.   Cool.

73 Inka Tii #2762958

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  • 2 weeks later...

Bringing this back up to the top.   The valvetrain in my tii has always been noisy, even after adjusting the valves (cold), replacing the AC idler pulley and most recently the water pump.  After returning from the 02 Group drive in NC on Saturday,  I drove it again to Grice's house in MD and the valve train was really noisy on restart, so today I pulled the valve cover and did a cursory visual inspection of the rockers.  

 

I then pulled the timing chain tensioner plug, spring and piston and could not hear the ball rattling inside when I shook it.  I soaked the piston in cleaning solution then ran it in my ultrasonic cleaner, which freed up the ball and now it audibly rattles.  I soaked the piston in some clean 20W-50 oil, then inserted it back into the engine and proceeded to bleed it after filling the reservoir with oil.  The piston action was very hard after bleeding it for about 1 minute, but no oil was pushed out the (loose) plug, so I may try bleeding it again tomorrow. 

 

After replacing the valve cover I started the engine.  There was absolutely no difference in the noise of the valve train, so tomorrow I'll check the valve clearances. 

 

I think even regular oil changes will not prevent the ball from sticking, since old oil stays in the little reservoir.  The service manual does recommend checking the tensioner piston if there is excessive noise.

 

The cylinder head was inspected by a local shop and machined (together with the upper cover) to correct a previous issue back about 2009. The shop performed a vacuum test on the valves and they were "OK", but there wasn't a mention of the condition of the rockers or rocker shafts.

 

Any ideas?

 

edit:  I replaced the oil pump, pump sprocket and chain with proper tension in 2009 at the same time as I replaced the rod bearings and piston rings.  Was hoping this would reduce the amount of noise coming from the engine but it didn't seem to help.

Edited by jgerock

Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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Follow up:  I loosened the plug bolt and re bled the tensioner piston. I noticed audible bubbly sounds and observed oil running out the end plug, so I continued until the piston didn't move anymore.   Afterwards, I went thru the valve clearances @ 0.006" and now the engine is quieter than before.  Been wanting to mess with the tensioner for a few years.  

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Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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2 hours ago, jgerock said:

fterwards, I went thru the valve clearances @ 0.006" and now the engine is quieter than before.  

 

?  .006 for intake, .008 for exhaust, right?  .006 for exhaust is too tight.  It might be quieter but that's not necessarily a good thing.

 

I've always been told that the valves should sound like a loud sewing machine.

 

On a similar topic, I can't seem to get an accurate valve adjustment.  I do a cold adjustment and a month later (because I'm hearing a louder ticking) I check the valves and a couple are either too loose or too tight.  What gives?  After my last adjustment they sound consistent again.  We'll see how they are the next time I check.

73 Inka Tii #2762958

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1 minute ago, PaulTWinterton said:

 I check the valves and a couple are either too loose or too tight.  What gives? 

Are the eccentrics in good shape?

 

Is it the same couple of valves each time?

     DISCLAIMER -- I now disagree with much of the timing advice I have given in the past.  I misinterpreted the distributor curves in the Blue Book as timing maps for our engines.  I've also switched from using ported-vacuum to manifold, with better results.  I apologize for spreading misinformation. 

(3-28-2024)  

 

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I don't know.  :blink:

 

The head has never been off my engine (115K) , so I'd have to guess that all the bits are worn.  You've probably nailed it.   I can tell you that the 10mm adjuster hex bolt heads have some rounded edges.  I good indicator that the rest of the valve components are worn.  I'm anticipating an engine rebuild someday.  I don't want to do just the head.  So many people will tell you that rebuilding the head only will increase the chances of ring failure on an older engine.  I have no experience with that, but it's enough to stop me from refreshing the head.

73 Inka Tii #2762958

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