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TDC and the 02again crank trigger wheel


Healey3000

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43 minutes ago, Healey3000 said:
  • Re-verify #1 TDC but this time, also confirm the flywheel mark and check that both #1 valves are loose
  • Find the flywheel ball and compare against my 25 degree mark

 

Yes, do these two steps to confirm the positions of the TDC and 25 BTDC markings on your trigger wheel, (paint the ball white).  I would then use the timing light to see if you can find the ball on your flywheel at 1400 RPM.  If not, loosen and turn your distributor until the ball appears at 1400 RPM with the vacuum advance plugged, then lock it down.  You should then be able to find the 25 BTDC mark on your trigger wheel with the timing light.

 

Just for grins, also verify that when you are at TDC that the rotor is pointing at what you think is the position of Spark Plug #1.

 

Mark92131

Edited by Mark92131

1970 BMW 1600 (Nevada)

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Mark92131 said:

 

Yes, do these two steps to confirm the positions of the TDC and 25 BTDC markings on your trigger wheel, (paint the ball white).  I would then use the timing light to see if you can find the ball on your flywheel at 1400 RPM.  If not, loosen and turn your distributor until the ball appears at 1400 RPM with the vacuum advance plugged, then lock it down.  You should then be able to find the 25 BTDC mark on your trigger wheel with the timing light.

 

Just for grins, also verify that when you are at TDC that the rotor is pointing at what you think is the position of Spark Plug #1.

 

Mark92131

Hi,

 

I had previously painted the ball white so I hope it will show up.  Trying to use a timing light on the ball is painful at best.  Distributor rotor is pointing where it should.  I borrowed an Innova timing light so I'll give that a shot tonight.  Also laid hands on a borescope camera that I can shove down the hole in the bellhousing to aid visualization.

 

Thanks.

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Have you had this engine off the transmission or verified the flywheel has been installed with the indexing dowel?  There have been cases that the dowel was not installed and the flywheel is not on correct.

I painted about an inch of red before the ball and an inch of white on the other side.  That way if I was in the neighborhood, it could tell which way to go to get on the ball.

A radiator shop is a good place to take a leak.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing but I know I'm really good at it.

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7 minutes ago, jimk said:

Have you had this engine off the transmission or verified the flywheel has been installed with the indexing dowel?  There have been cases that the dowel was not installed and the flywheel is not on correct.

I painted about an inch of red before the ball and an inch of white on the other side.  That way if I was in the neighborhood, it could tell which way to go to get on the ball.

Hi,

 

I have not had the engine off so I can't confirm whether or not the flywheel is clocked correctly.  However, the crank marks ought to be in the neighborhood, independent of the flywheel.  I'm suspecting the timing light and should be able to rule that out when I get home this evening.

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I'm officially a dope.  Nothing wrong with my timing light, after all.

 

Since I had done an "Italian tune", I had the advance higher than it should have been.  The timing mark was nicely hidden under the protuberances on the front of the engine, in just the perfect hiding place where you can't aim the timing light.  No wonder I couldn't see it.

 

Sorry about the false alarm but now the mark is nominally at 25 degrees but bouncing around a couple of degrees, unsurprisingly.  Thank you for the help and suggestions.

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I was going to comment, but see after reading the whole first page, that you figured it out.  I was only going to comment that a dial type, adjustable timing  light is handy because you can turn the dial until your marks line up, to see what advance is actually happening at any RPM.   (Get the analog dial type adjustable light, I originally had the INNOVA digital version and it crapped out.)

https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-Advanced-Timing-Light-14065/dp/B002P31TX2/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1538482578&sr=8-10&keywords=adjustable+timing+light

2002 newbie, and dead serious about it.
(O=o00o=O)
Smart Audio Products for your 2002

 

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The plan for the car is to go with MegaSquirt 3.  This particular step started with installing an e30 318i alternator and for that you have to pull the radiator.  That led to replacing the e21 radiator with a new one from WN.  Well, since I was in there, out went the mechanical cooling fan and in went a Spal.  I designed and fabbed my own brackets since I wasn't sure how longitudinally stiff the Massive brackets would be.

 

If I'm putting in an electric fan, I may as well implement variable speed, so a PWM circuit had to be designed.  That part is now done and I'm awaiting the final PC boards.  A temperature sender had to be installed in the lower hose as well.  Eventually, MS3 will take that sensor as an input on a spare analog channel and drive the fan directly.  Talk about scope creep :)

 

As for a dial-back timing light, I agree, that would have saved me a lot of work and saved many of you a lot of time.  I've also read that those tend to be unreliable so I've been hanging on to my twenty-five year old Craftsman, which apparently is working well.

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Ok for MS3 you can/should use wasted spark and drive the coils directly from Megasquirt.  For MS2 I usually still recommend using EDIS as it can only control one coil directly without a lot of extra complication, but since MS3 can drive 2 coils natively then no need to bother with the extra hardware, but then you'll need to rig your own circuit if you want to still drive the stock tach.  You can *probably* use a spare output on MS3 for this, but I'm unsure of the exact setup.  If your PWM circuit is already done, then this is probably moot, but still FYI you can use the Fidle output from Megasquirt to just turn on/off an electric fan relay without needing to use any *extra* outputs, assuming you're NOT using the Fidle for an idle control valve.  (But again if you're running MS3, you should probably plan to run a stepper motor for idle control instead anyway).  Getting back on topic, it's no problem to set an offset in Megasquirt to compensate for any misalignment of your trigger wheel and sensor. Basically you first setup Megasquirt to run a static timing (say 10 BTDC), and then you put the timing light on it and adjust the offset until you see it's exactly one tooth away from the TDC mark.  you can also bump up the idle speed a bit and do it at 25 BTDC and try and use the flywheel ball if that's your preference.  Either way, it lets you get it dialed in perfectly so you KNOW you're running whatever timing you program it to be!

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Hi,

 

With MS3 I plan on using wasted spark with four LS2 coils that sit on the valve cover (I've made a bracket for these).  No EDIS, but I am using the EDIS VR sensor because that's what the 02again wheel/bracket combo is designed for.  Agreed, setting the tooth offset is easy with MS3.

 

MS3 also has a tach output.  I am using a 56 mH inductor to create the flyback voltage spike that the 2002 tach requires.

 

For the fan, MS3 only needs to produce a 100 Hz PWM signal that my circuit then uses to drive the fan, so that's easy enough.

 

Idle control is by means of a stepper motor.  I'm using a Cavalier throttle body which is far more compact than the e30 units.  It has an integrated TPS as well as an idle motor (IAC).  Despite that, and having the same bore as the M20B25 throttle body, it is about half the height.  It also has a nice cable pull cam for actuation.

Cavalier_TB.jpg

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23 hours ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

 

may I ask which model?

 

(a friend had trouble with his 3568, but my 5568 has worked well so far... going on six years now)

 

 

Not sure.. it was a few years ago.. but I usually buy the top of the line. 

2002 newbie, and dead serious about it.
(O=o00o=O)
Smart Audio Products for your 2002

 

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Do you remember the color?  Red and black is their "Pro" model.  All black ones ... cost less.  The Pro has the built in Dwell Meter, but I don't think the others do.  

 

Not that it matters really.  Thank you for answering.

Tom

 

EDIT: of course it matters... it sucks when things break.  

 

Edited by '76mintgrün'02

     

 

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