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revolve40

Tangerine Dreams - '71 1600

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Hi FAQ!

 

Instagram: brbrady

 

It feels great to be back. After a brief hiatus from all things 1600/2002 related, I'm back in a relatively unsubtle way. Many of you probably saw this car for sale on Bring a Trailer, and I was fortunate enough to bring it to middle TN. I'm the third owner and plan to make some minor adjustments to the car and drive the snot out of it. After what felt like an eternity, the car arrived safely yesterday morning. The previous owner had the car for 27 years. Around 2005, he had it repainted from its original Nevada to Ford Omaha Orange. It's somewhere between Inka and Colorado. At that time, he commissioned a high-performance motor build controlled by an SDS ECU. The motor itself is comprised of an S14 block and crank, Carillo rods, a worked over E12 head and mystery cam/pistons. Fuel is delivered via M3 EVO injectors and TWM ITB's. Output was reportedly ~155 rwhp - more on that later.

 

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I've already added some coco sisal mats, a proper catch can, and an A/F sensor/gauge. I've also replaced the original vacuum plenum with a solid Vibrant piece to try and achieve a more stable vacuum signal, but I'm still only pulling ~7-8 inHg at idle. A far cry from the desired 20. This has made part-throttle tuning very difficult to say the least - any tips greatly appreciated as I'm considering changing to a TPS controlled tune form my current MAP sensor set up. 

 

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Over the past few weeks, I've been doing a little street tuning to see if I can richen up the lean spots and lean out the rich spots. I was surprised when I added the A/F gauge to see it running very lean in the lower rpms on full throttle. I seemed to get things about right on full throttle pulls (A/F around 11-13 throughout the range), but part throttle is still reading below 10 in most places. The oil smells like gas, and as suspected, the plugs looked terrible.

 

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This brings me to today, where I decided to throw it on the dyno at our local C&C event. The results were interesting and disappointing. Despite putting down 143 rwtq, I only managed 109 rwhp (sorry for the picture, I'm waiting on them to email me the curves). I'm hopeful that once the tune is ironed out, I'll see a power band more in line with what was originally advertised. Anyone have experience with the SDS systems? This car is only running a "Fuel Only" ECU, so no ability to tune spark at this time.

 

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Top priority is to get the tune in a good spot, change the oil and plugs, and change the motor mounts. 

 

Future plans are to reinstall lower rocker trim (this was deleted and holes were filled during the restoration, so I'll need to re drill the mounting holes *eek*), potentially add the correct trap mirrors, and add some critical gauges (oil temp and pressure, water temp), replace the muffler (this thing is LOUD and RASPY) and reroute the exhaust outlet to exit in the stock location. The long term might see updates like recovering the seats in vinyl.

 

Great to be back!

 

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Edited by revolve40

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Nice! Welcome back to the flock!

I drooled over this car when I saw it on BAT. Love the early look with the grey Borranis.

I don’t know anything about Tuning a fuel injected motor. But I recently installed a 123ignition. Being able to map my own curves almost instantly from my phone has been very beneficial and fun.

Regards,
Jason


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Cool car.

 

Platinum plugs always look like shit in an M10 because they don't run well with them. Tho this is an M10+! 😉

 

Get some coppers, which is why BMW recommends for the M10 and S14.

 

Pretty car! Good luck with the tune.

 

Cheers,

Edited by ray_
speeling

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Super nice 1600!  I too reviewed the listing closely on BaT.

 

Looks like a different alternator was installed.  I didn't see it listed in the previous owner's receipt (I can see it was in Simi Valley, CA).  Interesting to see the 89 HP starting point with 150 HP goal.

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1 hour ago, jmr_1602 said:

Nice! Welcome back to the flock!

I drooled over this car when I saw it on BAT. Love the early look with the grey Borranis.

I don’t know anything about Tuning a fuel injected motor. But I recently installed a 123ignition. Being able to map my own curves almost instantly from my phone has been very beneficial and fun.

Regards,
Jason


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Thanks! I'll look into 123ignition for sure.

 

1 hour ago, ray_ said:

Cool car.

 

Platinum plugs always look like shit in an M10 because they don't run well with them. Tho this is an M10+! 😉

 

Get some coppers, which is why BMW recommends for the M10 and S14.

 

Pretty car! Good luck with the tune.

 

Cheers,

 

Interesting! Any specific recommendations?

 

20 minutes ago, jgerock said:

Super nice 1600!  I too reviewed the listing closely on BaT.

 

Looks like a different alternator was installed.  I didn't see it listed in the previous owner's receipt (I can see it was in Simi Valley, CA).  Interesting to see the 89 HP starting point with 150 HP goal.

 

Thanks! Yes, unclear on the alternator. It seems like the goal was reached given the documentation, but something has happened between now and then that has really dropped the power down. Continuing to investigate!

 

I'm also having some trouble with the TWM's sticking a little. I might end up with Jenvey 45's if I can't get these 40's to act right.

Edited by revolve40

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11 minutes ago, revolve40 said:

Interesting! Any specific recommendations?

 

I dunno. Since it's an M10 head I'd suggest NGK BP5ES or 6.

 

But I suppose the engine builder is the one who should know. 

 

Tho I have doubts, since it's not tuned well... (yet).

 

Cheers,

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I'm beginning to wonder if I don't have a plug issue after all. The plugs that were in the car when I got it were Denso IW16's (equivalent to NGK heat range of 5). These are two heat ranges below what was evidently in the car at the time of the high dyno numbers above. 

 

I'm going to play around with different copper plugs and gaps to see how the car reacts.

Edited by revolve40
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I replaced the Denso IW16's that came with the car with the same plugs last weekend and checked them today. These look just like the ones above - totally fouled. These were gapped at .0365, just like the ones that came out. Obviously, no plug or gap will fix my rich condition, but thought I'd include.

 

Thanks to conversation here, I've got some BP6ES's on the way and will give those a go. Taking all gap recommendations!

 

I've been doing a ton of research and after some thought, I think I'm going to try and tune via TPS rather than the current MAP set up.

Edited by revolve40

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As an update, I've switched to a TPS tune from my original MAP set up, and the car is running much better already. I also switched plugs to NGK BP6ES gapped at ~.042, and while it's an improvement for sure, I'm going to tinker with some BP7ES and 8ES plugs as well to see how the car responds. MSD recommends a heat range 1-2 cooler than stock when using the 6A. Changed the oil and motor mounts too. 

 

The engine still shake quite a bit at idle and I'm just not sure if that's just how it is supposed to run or not. I've read some threads that point toward a weak alternator or battery, so I might check the voltage before going down that path. 

 

My goal is to get the plugs sorted and spend a day at the dyno mid-October.

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(edited)

Just to rule out anything major, I did a compression test this afternoon. Warm engine, WOT, dry test. Obviously, compression tests aren't the best indicators, but these results made me feel a little better.

 

1 - 215

2 - 210

3 - 210

4 - 210

 

I know this is a performance built motor, but those are pretty high numbers!

 

123 Distributor on the way, and some dyno tuning hopefully later this month.

Edited by revolve40

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Based on feedback in another thread, it looks like this motor has a Norris 360 cam. Still unsure if the duration is 330 as claimed, but it's likely between 300 and 330. 123ignition distributor install was a success and ended up with 12* of static advance. Running a conservative advance curve until I can get on the dyno. Also adjusted the valves to .006 intake / .008 exhaust.

 

RPM    123    "All-In"

500        0         12

1000      0         12

1300      0         12

1800      7         19

2600     14        26

3500     18        30

8000     18        30

 

Finally, switched to NGK BP7ES gapped at .032.

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Just a quick update: installed KW's velocity stack elbows and filter maintenance has become a breeze (and slightly cooler air temps). I also learned that the TWM ITB's are 42mm, not 40mm. The car will be making a trip to Greensboro at the end of February to spend some time at Korman (exhaust, timing, and fuel delivery). The goal is to be ripping around The Vintage in May.

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(edited)

Two and a half months later and Korman is wrapping up their work. Still a few more odds and ends to go, but should be finished in time for the Vintage.

 

Final specs:

S14 block and 84mm S14 crank (pistons and rods thought to be Carillo, but not confirmed)

NOS E12 Head with 47/39 SS valves

Korman rocker arms

Schrick 304

Weber 45mm DCOEs

Targeted a 9.5:1 compression ratio, but ended around 9.3:1 due to combustion chamber clearancing.

 

Part of the issue with the car was that the head had been shaved down too far, and cam timing was never adjusted properly. The head also had stock valves and was really not built up with the rest of the car. My CR was upwards of 10.5:1 which didn't love pump gas, and the SDS engine management was prehistoric.

 

The goal was/is to have a reliable but fun and streetable car. I know some have had mixed results lately, but Korman has been great to work with.

 

I'll have a bunch of my used stuff up for sale once I get everything back, including the Lester Owen rockers and 42mm TWM ITB's with port-matched manifolds.

 

Hope to see you all in Hot Springs!

 

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Edited by revolve40
  • Like 2

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