Jump to content
photocrasher

Trouble with instrument lighting after LED swap

29 posts / 2112 viewsLast Reply

Recommended Posts

(edited)

AVG sorry not to hijack Photocrasher's thread, (seems he's got it sorted), I did not complete the picture.  I have added a two-relay harness to route the low and high beams direct from the battery, old low/hi beam wires operate the coils on the relays, so yes, you’re right, I likely do have a diode latching issue. I did like the brighter hi beam and turn signal flasher indicators.  I have all of my grounds cleaned up, so my direction flashers all work well.  I  tried reversing polarities on the LEDs before I retired them.

I might give this a re-think with your help. 

 

I bought all of the LEDs for the indicators and brakes, 50ohm resistors, etc, but Switzerland does not allow them.  I don't think they could see the difference to ping the instrument indicator lights.

 

382155095_HeadlightRelayCircuitDiagram.thumb.png.6279e51df9ebe29646d56030f3c278e0.png

Edited by Swiss 2002Tii
additional info

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, well I see a few simple things to verify here first:

1.) Could you possible have put in the LED bulb for the high beam indicator lamp in backwards? This would indeed cause the high beam relay to latch!  But if it's in the 'correct' way such that it lights up when the high beams are on, then it should NOT cause this, nor can I see how any of the other dash lights interfere with this.

 

2.) If you high beam relay is engaged, then the low beams certainly will not work (this is good/how it's supposed to work). It's important to keep in mind, and leads me to the question: Was it ever the case that the low beams would not come on while the high beams were for sure OFF?

 

3.) This circuit seems to plug into the existing headlight connector, which means that the original, factory low beam relay is also still used/needed in this circuit (to provide the +12V on the Gelb/Schwarz wire to control the 'new' low beam relay.  Is this how you have it done? If so, this seems a bit silly to me, and I'd suggest you trigger the new low beam relay straight from the Gelb/Weiss wire from the main light switch instead, rather than run through two relays (and thus two potential points of failure) in series.  The crappy low beam relay could be adding to your headache here. . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Tommy said:

This just made me wonder why you want the instrument cluster to shine on your face? I think it will be rather uncomfortable in dark unless turned down.

I have never used the full power of the original bulbs. Probably some of them are actually original and definitely not at their brightest anymore.

 

I can definitely see what you mean. These are quite a bit brighter, and although I was hoping for them to be brighter than the stock bulbs, I doubt that I'll ever keep them on full blast. I tested the dimmer last night after getting things back in initially and it's working great, so will find the perfect balance after the car is put back together. Definitely a LOT brighter than stock though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Dudeland said:

I had a problem with the Superbright LED's on my 75.  I had to cut the contacts so the wire just went down one side.  If it wraps up on the other side, the panel will short out and blow a fuse. 

 

I think that this is your problem.

 

Let me know

 

 

 

 

Yes, if you look at my photos, I bent the wire and doubled it back on itself so that it wasn't on both the left and right of the base. I was lucky in that it didn't blow any fuses when I tested it initially, but nothing worked. Changing the leads solved my issue. Thanks for the idea!IMG_8965.thumb.jpg.299dc09867a8269291b2b91febd4f3c6.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, AustrianVespaGuy said:

Hmm, well I see a few simple things to verify here first:

1.) Could you possible have put in the LED bulb for the high beam indicator lamp in backwards? This would indeed cause the high beam relay to latch!  But if it's in the 'correct' way such that it lights up when the high beams are on, then it should NOT cause this, nor can I see how any of the other dash lights interfere with this.

 

2.) If you high beam relay is engaged, then the low beams certainly will not work (this is good/how it's supposed to work). It's important to keep in mind, and leads me to the question: Was it ever the case that the low beams would not come on while the high beams were for sure OFF?

 

3.) This circuit seems to plug into the existing headlight connector, which means that the original, factory low beam relay is also still used/needed in this circuit (to provide the +12V on the Gelb/Schwarz wire to control the 'new' low beam relay.  Is this how you have it done? If so, this seems a bit silly to me, and I'd suggest you trigger the new low beam relay straight from the Gelb/Weiss wire from the main light switch instead, rather than run through two relays (and thus two potential points of failure) in series.  The crappy low beam relay could be adding to your headache here. . .

All good points:

1. I bench tested it for polarity, only worked one way, but I could check in situ.

2. Low beams and high beams always worked as intended.

3. Very good point; the replacement harness was designed to just plug into the existing circuit.  I should bypass the old low beam relay and jumper the Gelb/Schwarz and Gelb/Weiss wires directly to the new circuit.

520309418_HeadlightRelayHarness(8).thumb.JPG.7d2845f1321789eab84ab95df319ae09.JPG

1133365410_HeadlightRelayHarness(17).thumb.JPG.e44a63b0561ea1f79009caf82b5af26d.JPG

 

You can see where I had damage from a short dinking on my alternator... all of that section of harness has been re-wired.

Thanks for the advice!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, especially since your relays are about in the same place, you can actually just bend in the little tab on the spade connector and then pop that Ge/Ws wire out of the old relay socket, bend the locking tab back out, and plug that original wire straight into the new relay socket.  I think you should have enough length for that and then it'll be nice and clean.

 

If you want to try this again I'd suggest going in incremental steps.  First, just do the LEDs for the cluster back lighting, and make sure everything works properly.  Then do the oil and charge lights, then do the turn and high beams, etc.  That way if something goes sideways again, you'll have a much narrower idea of what is causing it.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/27/2018 at 1:36 PM, Mark Mousseau said:

Wanting to update my cluster to LED. Which bulbs did you install from Superbright LED?  Any tips are much appreciated. 

 

Hi Mark -

 

I ordered the 194-AHP5 bulbs. For the main cluster lights I ordered 4 of the natural white, and then ordered one blue, one green, and two red bulbs for the high beams, blinkers, oil pressure, and brake indicators. Although the superbrightled website does not indicate these fit, I did not have any trouble getting them in. 

 

One thing specifically to note, as was mentioned by other posters, is that you should not replace the electrical system bulb with an led. I tried this to confirm the thinking and can confirm that with an LED in place the alternator does not activate and properly charge the system. Hopefully that light stays off during most use though and you don’t miss the brighter bulb...

 

Another side note that I’ve not addressed with mine, is that after installing the LED bulb in the blinker indicator, the light does stay on all the time. I don’t know if it’s because of the lower resistance from the LED vs incandescent or because I also swapped out my actual blinkers with LED’s as well, but it does still blink brightly when activated. I am planning to test my relay eventually but have been busy and unable to do so yet. Your results may differ from mine on that, but don’t panic if not. 

 

Best of luck!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/29/2018 at 1:12 AM, photocrasher said:

 

Hi Mark -

 

I ordered the 194-AHP5 bulbs. For the main cluster lights I ordered 4 of the natural white, and then ordered one blue, one green, and two red bulbs for the high beams, blinkers, oil pressure, and brake indicators. Although the superbrightled website does not indicate these fit, I did not have any trouble getting them in. 

 

One thing specifically to note, as was mentioned by other posters, is that you should not replace the electrical system bulb with an led. I tried this to confirm the thinking and can confirm that with an LED in place the alternator does not activate and properly charge the system. Hopefully that light stays off during most use though and you don’t miss the brighter bulb...

 

Another side note that I’ve not addressed with mine, is that after installing the LED bulb in the blinker indicator, the light does stay on all the time. I don’t know if it’s because of the lower resistance from the LED vs incandescent or because I also swapped out my actual blinkers with LED’s as well, but it does still blink brightly when activated. I am planning to test my relay eventually but have been busy and unable to do so yet. Your results may differ from mine on that, but don’t panic if not. 

 

Best of luck!

 

Sorry to dig this back up, but have you sorted out the blinker indicator issue?
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Sorry to dig this back up, but have you sorted out the blinker indicator issue?
 


I haven’t, but with winter here and some other home projects taking priority I also haven’t given it more work.

I did read some articles about swapping out the OEM signal relay with a newer modern one, but since mine is working fine aside from this I’m likely to try swapping the bulb back to an incandescent first. If it stays illuminated with the incandescent in then I’ll have to try some of those other options.

I will update the thread regardless of my results when I get a chance to try.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can any suggest a solution or has anyone experience this. I just changed out my instrument lights to L.E.D’s. I turned my key on and of course the lights didn’t work. I checked the blinkers, head lights, tail lights and parking lights. All worked. Then I noticed smoke coming from the main wiring harness that connects to the instrument cluster. I disconnected it and it appeared to stop. So I checked all the connections and tried it again. This time I turned the engine on and checked all the electrical and noticed my fuel gauge and tach was working, but then I noticed more smoke but it appeared to be coming from the lower side of the engine bay on the passenger side. This time it blew my fuse. Any ideas or suggestions. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can any suggest a solution or has anyone experience this. I just changed out my instrument lights to L.E.D’s. I turned my key on and of course the lights didn’t work. I checked the blinkers, head lights, tail lights and parking lights. All worked. Then I noticed smoke coming from the main wiring harness that connects to the instrument cluster. I disconnected it and it appeared to stop. So I checked all the connections and tried it again. This time I turned the engine on and checked all the electrical and noticed my fuel gauge and tach was working, but then I noticed more smoke but it appeared to be coming from the lower side of the engine bay on the passenger side. This time it blew my fuse. Any ideas or suggestions. 


Some LED bulbs are picky about polarity. The ones I ordered didn’t appear to be, but that would be a good thing to test.

I’m not great with electrical issues but have had some strange things happen coincidentally that really had me scratching my head as to how they could be related. If your fuse blew it sounds like something is either hooked up wrong or your grounding with an exposed wire somewhere. Look at any exposed wiring for issues with the insulation. Lastly, and the electricians here will likely have a better testing method, but you might consider removing all of the new bulbs and turning the car on to see if you can isolate if the bulbs are truly related or not. If the smoke persists then you might be safe to rule out the bulbs.

Good luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.