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Help me work out what engine I have!?


APka

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The VIN on my car (a 1973 RHD 2002) is 1659566 so I would say that you have the engine (or at least the block) out of a 2 litre. I would be interested to see what pistons you have in there with that head as mine has an e12 head. 

Edited by Simeon

rtheriaque wrote:

Carbs: They're necessary and barely controlled fuel leaks that sometimes match the air passing through them.

My build blog:http://www.bmw2002faq.com/blog/163-simeons-blog/

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2 hours ago, Simeon said:

The VIN on my car (a 1973 RHD 2002) is 1659566 so I would say that you have the engine (or at least the block) out of a 2 litre. I would be interested to see what pistons you have in there with that head as mine has an e12 head. 

Would a 2002 from 72-73 have a 36-40 PDSI Solex carb on it ?

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Great!

 

VIN 1656688 was a right-hand-drive Euro-spec 2002, manufactured sometime from February to August 1972. I found this information on the VIN decoder offered by the BMW 2002 Club of Columbia:

 

https://www.bmwclasicos.com/servicios.php#

 

So, the block came from a 2002, meaning it is a 2-liter block, as is also shown on the VIN boss: note the faintly-stamped “2,0” just behind the VIN, oriented 180 degrees from the VIN.

 

BMW Archives can provide the specific manufacturing date for the car with VIN 1656688.  But this block will also have a casting date, obviously dating to some time before the car was manufactured. I’m guessing there will be a “72” cast into the block just above the “21A” in the oval frame, and it will be a block cast January 21, 1972.

 

A 2-liter block with a 1.6-liter head is generally a sub-optimal configuration, as a 1.6-liter head’s combustion chambers were designed for the smaller bore of a 1.6-liter block and the overall design of a smaller displacement engine. Given this odd pairing of block and head, and the 1976 date of the head (April 1976, as Mark noted, unless there are some month “nubs” beyond the photo’s edge), I would guess that this might be your 1502’s original head. But the car’s manufacturing date, from BMW Archives, when compared with the head’s casting date, will tell us whether that’s possible.

 

You’re going to have some decisions to make — maybe. Keep the configuration as is, if it’s working for you. Swap the E21 1,6 head for a 2-liter head. Or swap the 2-liter block for a 1.6-liter block.

 

Just to put this in context, yours is certainly not the first ‘02 with a mis-matched block and head. It happens.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited by Conserv

1976 2002 Polaris, 2742541 (original owner)

1973 2002tii Inka, 2762757 (not-the-original owner)

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5 hours ago, Simeon said:

....I would be interested to see what pistons you have in there with that head as mine has an e12 head. 

 

+1

 

I have the same thought, Simeon. I’d expect a 1502 to have flat-top pistons. But I’d expect a 1972 Euro-spec 2002 to have piano-top pistons.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

1976 2002 Polaris, 2742541 (original owner)

1973 2002tii Inka, 2762757 (not-the-original owner)

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I don’t have full 1502 specs, but the February 1975 Owner’s handbook that came with my 2002 shows the 1975 Euro-spec 1602 as being equipped with a 38 PDSI carburetor. I’d bet the 1502 used the same unit. Perhaps your carb and intake manifold came off the same 1972 as the block, or an entirely different car. Whoever mated a 2-liter block with a 1.6-liter head was not...constrained by the factory configuration.... ?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited by Conserv
  • Like 2

1976 2002 Polaris, 2742541 (original owner)

1973 2002tii Inka, 2762757 (not-the-original owner)

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On 5/24/2018 at 5:51 PM, Conserv said:

I have the same thought, Simeon. I’d expect a 1502 to have flat-top pistons. But I’d expect a 1972 Euro-spec 2002 to have piano-top pistons.

 

What do you mean by piano top pistons? 

 

Do you happen to know where I can find out more info regarding piston dimensions / diameters, and admission diameters, so that when i take more of it apart this weekend I can try and determine what I have exactly? 

 

Thanks in advance !

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Pat Allen (username PatAllen) wrote an article or thread on the various piston types. And there are other threads on pistons. If you can’t find Pat’s article, I’d recommend you search on something like “piano piston” to see some examples (hint: the raised area has the silhouette of a grand piano).

 

E21 heads were often fitted with flat-top pistons, yielding relatively low compression ratios — 8.0:1 to 8.3:1.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

Edited by Conserv
  • Like 1

1976 2002 Polaris, 2742541 (original owner)

1973 2002tii Inka, 2762757 (not-the-original owner)

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5 hours ago, APka said:

What do you mean by piano top pistons? 

 

3 types of stock pistons for the M10 engine...

 

Bathtub (early cars, normally matched with 121 and 121Ti heads)

Grand Piano (looks like a grand piano from the top, normally matched with E12 heads)

Flat Top (turbos and later cars, usually mated with E21 heads as Steve mentioned)

 

Mark92131

 

 

MH-090174010.jpg

IMG_1060.jpg

a2079171492aba93c8bdbb_l__86649.1417458959.1280.1280.jpg

  • Like 1

1970 BMW 1600 (Nevada)

 

 

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Thanks everyone fort he insight regarding the pistons ! 

 

I will try and open it up soon and let you all know what I have inside...

 

However, one thing still eludes me :  How is it physically possible to have a 1.6L head on a 2L engine? Isn't that by itself impossible? A friend of mine refuses to believe it is possible, and I, for lack of experience/knowledge, am still trying to wrap my own head around the concept... Haha silly me ^^

 

Could anyone explain to a simpleton such as myself how this is possible?

 

Thanks again guys.. Hopefully I'll get out of this mess soon !

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If you have flat top pistons then they won’t protrude beyond  the head gasket so you can physically fit whichever head you like. The normal pistons, as described above, have different shape ‘domes’ on to that are designed to fit into the combustion chamber shape in the head to provide better compression, swirl and flame front. 

 

You could have flat tops... or... someone took an angle grinder to the domes on your pistons or they similarly ground the combustion chambers to give clearance. 

rtheriaque wrote:

Carbs: They're necessary and barely controlled fuel leaks that sometimes match the air passing through them.

My build blog:http://www.bmw2002faq.com/blog/163-simeons-blog/

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No not the same.  Flat top are... flat on top.  The turbo pistons actually have a shallow bowl to decrease the compression ration further.  

 

Posting these pictures again (with credit to the previous posters)

 

Flat top

 

a2079171492aba93c8bdbb_l__86649.1417458959_1280_1280.jpg.d90b7f205407e6306ce92aecf4826bb5.jpg.9ac7395b652e5e5c5d3684761c26e7bd.jpg

 

Turbo (note the shallow bowl)

 

735122834_TurboPiston.JPG.0d5225728c41bfd0929b96d4ff60c8b7.JPG.e96f7a420971e3aa1891917f64d51f8d.JPG

rtheriaque wrote:

Carbs: They're necessary and barely controlled fuel leaks that sometimes match the air passing through them.

My build blog:http://www.bmw2002faq.com/blog/163-simeons-blog/

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And to complete the explanation, the Turbo head has machining to create more or less a hemispherical chamber, much different from an E12, 121Ti etc, even the Alpina variants. I don't recall the change in chamber volume off hand, but it is significant.

 

The "dished" pistons in concert with the head shape change the compression ratio to the 6.9:1, while the crank and connecting rods remain the same as a stock Tii, cam too. It does however have sodium filled exhaust valves different from the other engines.

 

In contrast to other engine variants, this is very mild around town, but certainly driveable. It doesn't drive anything like a "normal" naturally aspirated engine.

 

Having owned a '69 1600 (US), a '72 2002, and a '72 Tii, I can say that they all drive different. But don't discount the smaller displacement  cars as being less fun.....they are every bit as much.

Turbo Head (Small).JPG

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So, to keep you all updated, I haven't yet had a chance to take off the head, but I have removed the intake... 

 

I had previously purchased an intake manifold for a 316, and it appears to be the same size... 

Here are some photos of the diameters of the intake, do these confirm anything (1.6/2L), or are they the same size on both engines?

 

Thanks in advance,

33764294_1811791775555139_8825408368731488256_n.jpg

33767862_1811791728888477_9071287038744985600_n.jpg

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