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Rear Disc Brake Conversion


doza59

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16 hours ago, bento said:

-Bleeding (How much of a pain is it to bleed the VW calipers? Are we talking just the extra 5 minutes or so to unbolt them, or is there some other complexity to it?)

-Cost difference ~$500

-Turning the hubs down or not

-Weight of aluminum vs cast iron caliper

-E-brake cable? Turbo vs OE?

-Both are single piston calipers, correct?

-Are the rotors roughly the same dimensions?

-I believe I read the pad is either the same or very similar. Is that correct?

 

What other considerations are worth mentioning?

 

Truth be told the wilwood caliper and the one from this kit are actually very similar. They actually use the same brake pads. Wilwood designed their caliper from this one but engineered it to be able to run a wider rotor.

 

-Yes exactly, another 5 min to unbolt them for bleeding.

-The weight is pretty insignificant for a street car, we'd say maybe a little over 2lbs. per caliper. For a race car this might mean something to you.

-The parking brake cable should be the Standard one. Every once in a while we will get a car where the cable won't reach by about a 1/2". We think this has to do with the small differences in each car and that they are now 40-50 years old. In this case a turbo cable would solve the issue.

-Yes, both single piston. Wilwood is 34mm, VW/Audi Steel caliper is 36mm or 38mm, and the aluminum one is 41mm

-No, the rotors on the wilwood are larger diameter and width, also they don't require machining of the hub.

 

Other considerations would be rim size and choice.

 

Anyways, what we meant by "pros and cons to both kits" was referring to the differences in Bluntech's kit and ours. But we are happy to answer your questions.

 

15 hours ago, Brandon said:

I can’t remember for sure but I think the calipers were from a General Motors vehicle??

They are an Audi/VW part. If you are referring to the vented rotor kit, that one uses a corvette caliper.

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16 hours ago, Brandon said:

I used the Ireland rear disks in my track car and was very satisfied with them.  I used the aluminum calipers and did run a bias valve as they recommend. I can’t remember for sure but I think the calipers were from a General Motors vehicle??  I’d highly recommend them for track use.  Not sure disk are really needed for street use though...upgrading to E21 drums would probably be a cheaper solution and offers better braking than the standard 02 drums.

 

Any chance you can elaborate?  Over the long term, my car will be 90% street with the rare autocross fun thrown in.  I was assuming that rear disks were an inevitability, but maybe I'm way off.  What is different about the E21 drums that makes them an upgrade alternative to rear disks?  Thanks! 

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33 minutes ago, wheelieking said:

 

Any chance you can elaborate?  Over the long term, my car will be 90% street with the rare autocross fun thrown in.  I was assuming that rear disks were an inevitability, but maybe I'm way off.  What is different about the E21 drums that makes them an upgrade alternative to rear disks?  Thanks! 

 

9 minutes ago, AceAndrew said:

The e21 250mm drums offer just as much stopping power as the VW disks, no fitment finagling (direct bolt on).  More 13" wheel fitment options.  They just don't look as sexy.

 

Also BTW: It is getting increasingly more difficult to find new parts for that 250mm drum kit. The drums and shoes are no problem, but the backing plates and drum hardware seem to be entering into NLA/Backordered indefinitely territory. Obviously there are still plenty of used ones from parts cars out there. But as long as we can get 'em we'll still sell 'em.

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5 minutes ago, Ireland Engineering said:

 

 

Also BTW: It is getting increasingly more difficult to find new parts for that 250mm drum kit. The drums and shoes are no problem, but the backing plates and drum hardware seem to be entering into NLA/Backordered indefinitely territory. Obviously there are still plenty of used ones from parts cars out there. But as long as we can get 'em we'll still sell 'em.

 

Alrighty, sexy Wilwood disks it is then!  ;)

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Ahhhhhhh....... So then, can you order this IE kit with Wilwood disks instead? 

 

That would remove the need to machine the hubs.  It would probably cost $100 to have the hubs machined, so it's OK if cost goes up a bit.

 

Jose

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27 minutes ago, DaHose said:

Ahhhhhhh....... So then, can you order this IE kit with Wilwood disks instead? 

 

That would remove the need to machine the hubs.  It would probably cost $100 to have the hubs machined, so it's OK if cost goes up a bit.

 

Jose

Maybe? It would require a different bracket but maybe the one we make for wilwood would also work for this caliper.

 

Edit: Take that back no the bracket wont work you will need custom bracket for it.

Edited by Ireland Engineering

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21 hours ago, Ireland Engineering said:

 What rotor does it use?

 

I don’t know.  But it works with most 13” rims and that’s why I find it very interesting....

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

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3 hours ago, DaHose said:

Is it a back spacing issue?  Custom bracket might be easy enough to make if it's just backspacing.

 

It would be both a backspacing and a diameter issue. If we had to make the custom one-off brackets for it you would already be at the same price range as the wilwood caliper.

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Ok.  That is really good info.

 

I do all my own machining, mechanic work, welding, and fabrication.  Here is a link to some of the work I have done on my E24 M6.

M6 Rebuild Document

 

Could I get the kit, with Wilwood disks, but without brackets, then just make my own?

 

Jose

Edited by DaHose
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8 hours ago, wheelieking said:

 

Any chance you can elaborate?  Over the long term, my car will be 90% street with the rare autocross fun thrown in.  I was assuming that rear disks were an inevitability, but maybe I'm way off.  What is different about the E21 drums that makes them an upgrade alternative to rear disks?  Thanks! 

E21 had larger rear drums than 2002 and was a popular upgrade prior to the fabricated rear disk kits offered by various venders.  If you’re not going full on track and want to upgrade all four corners,  I’d go with e21 drums in rear and fit volvo calipers (from a 240 I think??) up front but you need the hubs from a ‘77 e21 to make them fit and also the rotors I believe.  You can also add a Tii brake booster (this exact same Tii booster was used in certain Volvo cars as OEM as well and may be cheaper to source used) along with a late 70’s 5-series master cylinder.  I did use the Willwood kit up front on my Tii race car and that setup was absolutely fantastic!  The stopping power was considerably improved especially with the addition of racing brake pads.  The bonus of the willwood brakes and also adding disks in the rear is the savings of weight and of course weight is an evil thing on a track/autocross car!

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10 hours ago, Ireland Engineering said:

 

Truth be told the wilwood caliper and the one from this kit are actually very similar. They actually use the same brake pads. Wilwood designed their caliper from this one but engineered it to be able to run a wider rotor.

 

-Yes exactly, another 5 min to unbolt them for bleeding.

-The weight is pretty insignificant for a street car, we'd say maybe a little over 2lbs. per caliper. For a race car this might mean something to you.

-The parking brake cable should be the Standard one. Every once in a while we will get a car where the cable won't reach by about a 1/2". We think this has to do with the small differences in each car and that they are now 40-50 years old. In this case a turbo cable would solve the issue.

-Yes, both single piston. Wilwood is 34mm, VW/Audi Steel caliper is 36mm or 38mm, and the aluminum one is 41mm

-No, the rotors on the wilwood are larger diameter and width, also they don't require machining of the hub.

 

Other considerations would be rim size and choice.

 

Thanks for the thorough response. Good information.

 

My car sees a fair bit of track time and is both full weight and turbocharged, so the detail about the rotor being bigger and thicker in the Wilwood kit is a distinction worth noting for me.

 

I’m still running 230mm drums, but getting tired of the frequent shoe adjustment. When I step up to r-comp tires from the S-Drives that just won’t die, I’m pretty sure I’ll have to throw some more money at the brakes, front and rear.

Brent

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On 3/8/2018 at 12:16 PM, AceAndrew said:

The e21 250mm drums offer just as much stopping power as the VW disks, no fitment finagling (direct bolt on).  More 13" wheel fitment options.  They just don't look as sexy. 

 

It is neat to see IE bring back the disk kit.

 

Not as Sexy.......Big ISSUE for many 

 

Bring The SEXY

83C2929E-2443-4A5B-BAFD-5A4299ED62CC.thumb.jpeg.5fe059ce0f8b25b197b7cd912ff81a89.jpeg

 

Behind Alpina

A3B2AF3B-B3A3-4433-BB59-3C0E6BAFE0EE.thumb.jpeg.f9b5312cdd0a11991d3e10117f947fdd.jpeg

Edited by chargin
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