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New owner of '70 ti + Alpina sticker found

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Hi all, recently I became the new owner of a Bristol 2002ti, 1970 model year. I've wanted to do one of these properly for some time now and finally am at a place in my life to do so. To the best of my knowledge, the vehicle was first sold in Frankfurt, the original owner sold it to someone in Seattle in 1992 who then sold it to the person I acquired it from in 2015. It sat, in storage for reasons unknown from 1996 until now. It has since found a home in my shop where the process of dismantling and labeling has begun. Which, is the second reason I'm posting here now. Under the passenger door panel was a sticker that says 'Alpina GT' on it. I'm hoping someone might be able to shed some light on this for me...hopefully. Much appreciated in advance, happy to be here, and looking forward to visiting often and learning what I can to help in the process of bringing it back to life.

alpinagt.jpg

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Welcome.  I can't help with the Alpina sticker, but I would love to see some photos of your car, even if it's in pieces.  I have not seen a bristol ti before.

 

I am in Seattle and have a colorado 71 ti.  I'm happy to help with questions, if I can.  Where are you located?  

 

Andy

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Hi Andy, this car is a mystery of sorts...the VIN range puts it in the 2002 category, there is the ti badge on the back though, and now the Alpina sticker. My inclination is to call it a 2002 and not a ti. I've looked around for what would define a ti vs 2002 other than the VIN and know people can and have added ti badging, bits, and pieces for whatever reason. It's a 48 year car...anything is possible.

 

I'm down in Bend so not close but also not terribly far.

 

Thanks,

Casey

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Casey:

 

Thanks, that clears things up a bit.  I think a ti is defined primarily by the VIN, so as you say, yours is probably a coversion of sorts.  I'd still be interested in seeing photos, and hearing more about what ti-specific parts have been installed.  The main ti-specific bits would be larger struts/brakes, boxed trailing arms, dual PHH sidedrafts, lower battery tray.  One big advantage of starting with a euro spec pre-71 car is that it should have the correct dash with chrome trim.

 

Bristol is a great color, one of my favorites.

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Thanks Andy, I fell in love with the color and the fact it doesn't have a sunroof. The ti was a bonus, but, as it turns out probably isn't a true ti afterall. The trailing arms aren't boxed, more of an open 'L' shape, the battery has long since been relocated to the trunk. The dash however is pristine - two piece, although whether or not there is/was any chrome trim on it I can't remember; it's been removed and wrapped up for storage. Regardless, I'm having fun. I've attached a photo, it's nearly entirely stripped currently though.

IMG-3852.jpg

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Yes, that's a great color, nice wheels too.  The car looks like it has a late style grill, so it might have a nose transplant.  If it's a euro spec car, it's been federalized.  Have you given your VIN to BMW Classics to check manufacture date and delivery location?  They usually respond via email pretty quickly.

 

Good luck

 

andy

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I contacted the archive, they responded and told me that the car was "manufactured on January 28th, 1970 and delivered on February 09th, 1970 to J.B.S. (a military sales contractor) in Frankfurt/Main. The original colour was Bristol, paint code 058."

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As Andy mentioned, a ti is defined strictly by its VIN. The BMW Archives email will state “2002ti” if the car is, indeed, a ti. If I recall, all ti’s have VIN’s commencing with 168xxxx or 169xxxx: but at least one of the threads in this ti discussion provides the full range of ti VIN’s.

 

Back to your car specifically. Does it have a 167xxxx VIN? Perhaps something close to 1671500 (my informal cheat sheet shows VIN 1671544 as manufactured January 29, 1970)? If your car is, indeed, a 167xxxx car, it is not a ti but it is a U.S.-spec car. Thus, it would not have the chrome dash trim of a Euro-spec car of similar vintage.

 

Why do I suspect it is a U.S.-spec car?  Because J.B.S. was one of a small number of firms permitted to circumvent the usual “sole importer” role of Hoffman Motors Corp., meaning Hoffman was not the seller.  But these sales could only be: (a.) to certain U.S. military or governmental employees actively serving abroad, and (b.) for physical delivery of the car abroad, Belgium and Germany being two common delivery points, because that’s where this personnel was often serving.

 

Virtually all of these cars came home to the U.S. with the original buyers. And the program was premised on that plan. Thus, these cars had to be U.S. spec. The cars were significantly discounted, as the program was instituted as a sort of perquisite for personnel serving abroad, who also wanted to have a car while stationed abroad. European and British car manufacturers were, simultaneously, eager to put their cars in the hands of Americans. Thus...a good deal for everyone!

 

So....what’s your VIN?

 

By the by, Bristol is both a beautiful color and rare color in the U.S. And it was not a color that Hoffman Motors would have generally ordered for a 2002! How about the interior? All vinyl? Navy blue or black?

 

The paint around that Alpina G.T. sticker — not something I’ve previously seen — appears white, not Bristol. Is that just the photo?

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited by Conserv

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Regardless of the VIN, the presence of bulging turn signals and front/rear side markers points to a standard USA spec.model 2002 to me.

Edited by jgerock

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Steve, what a wonderful wealth of information, thank you! The vin is 1671433, so you would be correct in everything you've said above - US-spec, non ti. The paint around the sticker is grey as well, just poor lighting. As for the interior, that is all intact, original I believe to be vinyl and black with a sort of cream headliner.

 

Thank you again, I'm enjoying the learning process.

 

Casey

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3 hours ago, jgerock said:

Regardless of the VIN, the presence of bulging turn signals and front/rear side markers points to a standard USA spec.model 2002 to me.

 

Jim,

 

Yes, but....

 

Euro-spec cars that were Federalized back in the ‘70’s and ‘80’s had to have the side markers and “bulge” turn signals installed as part of the process.  Although Federalization of ‘02’s was likely uncommon — because it cost a lot to Federalize a car on a one-off basis when the same model was available from the factory in a U.S.-spec version — it did occur.

 

Since we knew this particular car was delivered in Frankfurt — geographically “European delivery” but not likely part of the factory’s European Delivery Program, as that delivery generally occurred in Munich — but was in the U.S. by 1992, we had to be especially cautious.

 

And, things change over 48 years.  Just as I wouldn’t conclude that a post-December 31, 1968 ‘02 without side markers was a “Euro-spec” car, I wouldn’t conclude that a post-December 31, 1968 ‘02 with side markers was a U.S.-spec car.  😙

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited by Conserv

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FYI, I spent sometime researching this car early this year when I saw the add. Unfortunately, one of the previous owner slapped the TI badge. I have correspondence with the previous owner and bmw archive and all leads to a non-TI 02. At one point I was hoping it was a TI body that someone took the original TI engine.


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Seen the alpina GT stickers before. Might actually have a set of centercaps that have them. Usually found on Vial/Oz/Alpina Style wheels like the FPS licenza on your second picture!  

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I believe the "Alpina GT" sticker is from a company that sold aftermarket parts in the mid '70s through the early 80's out of Vancouver BC, The owner's name was Klaus Raybine and he had a 2nd store just off of I-5 on Lake City Way.  We used to do some business with him in the '70s he was much more into the water cooled VW and Audi market back then but he would sell anything he could make money on.  I believe he was one of the 1st importers of Intra wheels back then. 

 

It has nothing to do with the Alpina we all covet.

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