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Distributor/Electronic ignition options...


Hodgepodge

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On 3/3/2018 at 12:07 PM, TobyB said:

Anything more involved, and you might as well go

crank- triggered- but that's overkill.

I'm with Toby on this one.  As clever as the 123 dizzy is, a programmable crank-fired setup is similar cost/effort and way, way, way more accurate, as it cuts out all of the slop in the crank cog, timing chain, cam cog, camshaft, camshaft gear, distributor gear, and distributor itself.  Ever wiggle the rotor in your dizzy?  However much movement that is, multiply that by 2 (as it runs at 1/2 crank speed), and that's your actual range of inaccuracy! But short of that, any of the above methods that get rid of points I would consider a very solid improvement, as long as they're coupled with a tight distributor in good condition.

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I had a borrowed 008 dizzy in my Tii after mine went belly up.

 

I tested it with a timing light and found that it was jittery and ran considerably different from the intended curves.  My motor just didn't want to go above 4000RPM.  According to Bosch and K'fisch, the max advance for a stock Tii cam is 32 degrees.

 

So faced with a choice of cost of rebuilding the mechanicals or an electronic solution (not so greatly different in Switzerland), I chose the 123 and I'm pleased with it....and, I am getting much better response above 4000 with the dizzy program at 32 degrees with a slight increase to red line (still experimenting)..

 

Advance Curves

       
         
 

Replacement Bosch Distributor

First 123 Curve

02.02.18 Start Curve

02.02.18 Final Curve

RPMs

Degrees

Degrees

Degrees

Degrees

500

   

6

6

800

 

6

6

6

1000

   

12

15

1100

9

8

   

1500

16

10

18

20

1800

21

15

   

2000

25

 

23

25

2200

26

20

   

2500

28

23

25

28

2800

29

27

   

3000

32

 

28

30

3200

 

32

   

3500

   

30

32

3600

36

     

4000

38

 

32

32

4300

       

4500

38

 

32

 

8000

38

32

 

36

 

image.png.4541abeb7aaec544276d4667bafe4b9e.png

5a9c37f418447_TimingAdvanceCurvesTii.jpg.571c9f71c102acd7451ee0854b10769b.jpg

 

 

1972 BMW Inka 2002Tii  ?

1974 BMW Turkis 3.0 CSi ?

1972 MBZ Weiss 280SE 4.5 

2006 BMW Cobalt 530i (38,700 m original)

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123. Period.  I had a Tii dizzy with pertornix before in great shape and the 123 is a better, more reliable option. Twice I had little screws back out on the pertronix mounting unit causing it to just stop running until I fount the screw and reinstalled. The 123 is a new dizzy so the slop that’s in a 42+ year old unit isn’t there. Then there is the tunability. Depending on your engine mods and condition a stock dizzy curve may not be right for your car. With the 123 you can tune it to how your car likes and have also tunable vacuum as well. Simple and stupid reliable. If you factor in the cost to rebuild and recurve a dizzy then the pertronix unit you probably are not that much different in price than a 123 unit. 

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1976 BMW 2002 Fjord Blue Ireland Stage II • Bilstein Sports • Ireland Headers • Weber 38 • 292 Cam • 9.5:1 Pistons • 123Tune Bluetooth 15" BBS

2016 BMW 535i M Sport

1964 Volvo Amazon Wagon
http://www.project2002.com

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IE tii replacement distributor was junk. You can have my old one for shipping cost. I have a 123 in my Turbo. Rock solid. Original mechanical distributor without wear in my tii. The only issue is burnt points after extended high RPM operation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

January 30, 1973 Agave tii

April 24, 1974 Chamonix Turbo (German delivery)

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Rob, I disagree with #2-

timing scatter is usually first caused by vertical play in the shaft, due to the helical drive gears.

 

If the mechanical advance comes apart completely, yes, things get sloppy there, too.

But usually at speed, the weights take up the slack.

 

On a non-tii, the vacuum pod is significantly important, too.

 

t

 

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"I learn best through painful, expensive experience, so I feel like I've gotten my money's worth." MattL

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On 3/4/2018 at 11:19 AM, Swiss 2002Tii said:

I am getting much better response above 4000 with the dizzy program at 32 degrees with a slight increase to red line (still experimenting).

When it's correct, you have curve #1

advance_vs_pressure1131805767.jpg

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A radiator shop is a good place to take a leak.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing but I know I'm really good at it.

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I installed a Crane XR3000 electronic ignition on mine.  You don't need a ballast wire on the coil with it and can run a lower resistance coil, something I don't think the Pertronix can do.

 

I didn't get a lot of miles on it though before the head cracked so I can't really give a review on it.  I also bought a 123tune distributor as part of the group buy, but it's still in the box.

 

And then as part of my engine rebuild, I bought an 02again crank trigger assembly so I can go Megasquirt eventually.  If I collect enough parts before the engine and car are ready, I may go straight to the MS.

John Baas

1976 BMW 2002

2001 BMW M5

My Blog!

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1 hour ago, xr4tic said:

f I collect enough parts before the engine and car are ready, I may go straight to the MS

Recommend you first fire and run in the engine on a known operable system of carb/distributor.  Been bunches of installs with little or no tune run on a fresh engine and running a fresh engine on a whacky fuel timing setup is recipe for disappointment.  Put on those things that are needed for EFI but don't use them until the EFI is installed.

A radiator shop is a good place to take a leak.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing but I know I'm really good at it.

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On 3/3/2018 at 8:35 AM, Hodgepodge said:

Once again I am out a little in front of my project, but I thought I would toss this question out.  There is already a 22 page discussion on this topic, but after 22 pages, it has been so diluted that there is not a clear answer to the question below.    My 2002 has a stock distributor that worked OK except all of the vacuum hoses were dryrotted so the engine sometimes popped a little when shifting. It is pretty much the only thing on the car that I haven't touched or developed a proper replacement/upgrade plan for and I have not yet inspected it.   I am pretty much in full blown restoration mode now that the engine is coming out of the car.  I've got some ideas, but would like your input.   I'll frame the question like this.  Which of these options is the most cost effective in terms of overall maintenance and reliability?  I have a great timing gun and know how to use it, but I don't necessarily want to.  

 

Here are the options:

 

1. Keep current distributor, just replace internals.   Yes, this is simplest and cheapest, but the idea is to make the car a highly reliable, worry free driver without having to keep a bunch of spares in the trunk.    

2. Go with pertronix.  OK, this is a great option and a lot of people are happy with it.  Issues?  Concerns?  Reliability?

3. Go with 123Tune.   3 times the money but supposedly maintenance free and stupid-easy to tweak.  (This is what 16 of the 22 pages in the other thread was about)   For those who have one, haw has consistency and reliability been? 

4. Something else? 

 

Looking forward to hearing from you!   

 

Thanks,


Scott

 

 

 

 

 

123--very stable and reliable.  You can buy with stock curves or roll your own.

January 30, 1973 Agave tii

April 24, 1974 Chamonix Turbo (German delivery)

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ino-5568.jpg?rep=False

     DISCLAIMER -- I now disagree with much of the timing advice I have given in the past.  I misinterpreted the distributor curves in the Blue Book as timing maps for our engines.  I've also switched from using ported-vacuum to manifold, with better results.  I apologize for spreading misinformation. 

(3-28-2024)  

 

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Mintgrun, I already own an Innova 5568!   :)

 

I use it on my other cars with distributors. 

Edited by Hodgepodge
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Current: '74 2002,75 2002, 88 E28 M5(2), 92 E34 M5, 02 E39 M5, 01 E39T M5, 08 E93 328i, 08 E61 535i, 09 E93 335i, 09 E91 328ix, 12 E70 3.5i  '67 Alfa Romeo Spider; '69 Alfa Romeo Spider, '08 Dodge 1500 SLT. Past BMWs: '74 2002tii, '74 2002, '76 E12 530i, '78 E12 528i, '85 E28 535is, '93 E34 528iT, '94 E34 528i, '99 E36 328ic (2) '99 E39 528iT, '03 E46 330i convt., '07 E90 328i

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