Joesprocket

Video - Lower power start and engine shake

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Car has been runnin rough since replacing water pump and wonder if it has to do with alternator / alt belt tension. See videos of a really sluggish engine turn. Eventually it will fire. But once it does finally start it shakes like a mother. Only at idle. I didn’t realize how bad it was until walking by the car today while it was running and I could hear the air cleaner softly tapping the hood!!! You’ll hear a couple belt squeals when i hit the throttle. That’s new. But wondering if the belt was loose to start and now too loose. Really tried to get that 1/2” - 3/4” belt deflect right. 

 

im getting 12v from battery

theres no vacuum lines loose

engine mounts seem ok

 

DE06C15C-806D-4AE3-864D-0FB6DDA3F0E1.MOV

 

0544E4B5-A88B-4E67-9CA3-810428C53048.MOV

 

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Check the plugs wires cap and rotor.  It sounds like it is running on 3 cyl. 

 

Your starter may be toast as well.  I replaced mine with an eBay model and it turns over like 6-7 times faster than yours. 

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Does the car start faster when you turn the headlights off?

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Now that I've been through about 2 full pages of 2002faq google searches I've come up with a few 'process of elimination' things to check that shouldnt cost any money. This forum is great but man is it annoying when people don't report back or leave an issue hanging. Like reading a book and not knowing how it ends!

 

Slow turn over

Could be from not having a clean ground to block?

Faulty starter?

 

Engine shake

Not running on 4 cylinders? Need to pull individual plugs while idling.

Check ignition system?

Motor / tranny mounts?

Timing?

 

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Add vacuum leak to the engine shake list. 

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Check timing , sounds too far advanced on starting , try marking the distributor position now with as marker , turn slightly in direction of rotation , re clamp & try starting , should crank easier if timing was out.My 02 worth , also look for vacuum leak , ( that won't affect slow cranking but timing will.

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Check the distributor centrifugal weight springs, by removing distributor cap and gently rotating rotor and letting go, in order to see if the rotor returns to its original position. Do this a couple of times as the distributor could be sticking in advance slightly.
.02 worth as I have experienced it numerous times on older 02’s. These weights can get gummy and not move freely.
Matt


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Sounds like you replaced the pump. Can you recall the steps you took in doing so?

 

I can’t think of much in that procedure alone that would whack timing or mess up starting. Unless you had disconnect “stuff” for acess etc or recall “Oh yeah I did do this while under the hood😀”

 

Also +1 on double check plug wire order. My recent rebuild was great except it ran like shit just like you describe. Turns out had wires on dist cap installed wrong direction and this runs you on two cylinders with lots of loud backfire pops and flames out of carb. You seeing that or just rough idle

 

Sorry not in a place at the moment to watch videos

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9 hours ago, LimeySteve said:

 also look for vacuum leak , ( that won't affect slow cranking but timing will.

Can't say i've found a vacuum leak..yet.  All hoses wiring as well as grounds look properly snug and secure.

 

5 hours ago, Schnellvintage said:

Check the distributor centrifugal weight springs, by removing distributor cap and gently rotating rotor and letting go, in order to see if the rotor returns to its original position. Do this a couple of times as the distributor could be sticking in advance slightly.
.02 worth as I have experienced it numerous times on older 02’s. These weights can get gummy and not move freely.

I'm going to try this over the weekend. I don't know the age of the plugs, wires, dizzy, cap, rotor points as well as coil. Even though I don't know for sure that these are the culprit i'm tempted to replace all this and start fresh regardless. 

 

3 hours ago, worzella said:

Sounds like you replaced the pump. Can you recall the steps you took in doing so?

I did. I removed removed the air pump and diverter valve that weren't connected to anything. PO had decommissioned smog equipment but left everything in place (without being hooked up) in the event someone needed to re-employ. i removed the pump, the diverter valve connected to it and the belt.

 

I wonder if by removing the air pump belt this has now thrown off the timing considering there's less pulling on the engine?

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10 hours ago, LimeySteve said:

 also look for vacuum leak , ( that won't affect slow cranking but timing will.

Can't say i've found a vacuum leak..yet.  All hoses wiring as well as grounds look properly snug and secure.

 

6 hours ago, Schnellvintage said:

Check the distributor centrifugal weight springs, by removing distributor cap and gently rotating rotor and letting go, in order to see if the rotor returns to its original position. Do this a couple of times as the distributor could be sticking in advance slightly.
.02 worth as I have experienced it numerous times on older 02’s. These weights can get gummy and not move freely.

I'm going to try this over the weekend. I don't know the age of the plugs, wires, dizzy, cap, rotor points as well as coil. Even though I don't know for sure that these are the culprit i'm tempted to replace all this and start fresh regardless. 

 

3 hours ago, worzella said:

Sounds like you replaced the pump. Can you recall the steps you took in doing so?

In addition to removing the WP i also removed the air pump and diverter valve that weren't connected to anything. PO had decommissioned smog equipment but left everything in place (without being hooked up) in the event someone needed to re-employ. i removed the pump, the diverter valve connected to it and the belt.

 

I wonder if by removing the air pump belt this has now thrown off the timing considering there's less pulling on the engine?

Edited by Joesprocket

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2 hours ago, Joesprocket said:

I wonder if by removing the air pump belt this has now thrown off the timing

 

What other smog stuff have you disconnected?  I see the EGR port is plugged on the intake manifold.

Does the distributor have vacuum advance AND vacuum retard?  Disconnecting the black electromagnetic control valve and/or the EGR relay will affect the vacuum retard, which could make a cold start too advanced....resulting in a very slow start.  Check the initial timing with all distributor vacuum lines disconnected and plugged (on the intake manifold side). Should be close to TDC.

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20 minutes ago, John76 said:

What other smog stuff have you disconnected? Does the distributor have vacuum advance AND vacuum retard?  Disconnecting the black electromagnetic control valve and/or the EGR relay will affect the vacuum retard, which could make a cold start too advanced....resulting in a very slow start.

I personally haven't pulled any smog equipment aside from the air pump and diverter value. I felt comfortable doing this knowing they weren't attached to anything other than themselves. I've had the car for about 8 months prior to doing the WP last month and didn't have any issues during that time so everything related to smog has been untouched.

I need to spend a little time educating myself on vacuum retard and advance. I'm not totally sure.

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What is the voltage measurement in your battery? You said 12V, but fractions of a volt can make the difference between a fully charged and a discharged battery. If you have a lead acid battery, it should be reading 12.6V at full charge.

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16 hours ago, Chris_B said:

What is the voltage measurement in your battery? You said 12V, but fractions of a volt can make the difference between a fully charged and a discharged battery. If you have a lead acid battery, it should be reading 12.6V at full charge.

Voltage measurement holds at 12.69

Started the car this morning and ran a test of each spark plug wire. Individually pulling 4,3,2 the engines shakes increase. Pulling cylinder 1 there is no change in engine response. I've pulled all plugs (NGK-BP5ES) and they've all got a fair amount of carbon build up and I've not changed them since I had a shop replace the leaky valve guide and seals. Not sure if this is the answer to my engine shake but it's a start. Plan on replacing with the same plugs.

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1 hour ago, Joesprocket said:

Pulling cylinder 1 there is no change in engine response

So cylinder #1 is not getting spark. Did you check the spark plug wire/ boot/ cap ?

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