Pulling the engine...where is the DIY guide?

[Hodgepodge]

OK, I'm trying to research pulling the engine and transmission and have found a lot of bits and pieces.   Engine with gear box, engine without gear box, lift the engine, drop the front subframe, etc.  The problem I'm having is that a surprising number of older references, links and a guide or two are simply are no longer available on the site.  There was a host change or something around 2011-13 and links to "guides" and other things from before then are "not found"   

 

I'll go look through my old school shop manuals, but can anyone point me to a good reference?   For now I'm thinking that IF I want to do this, I want to disconnect the tranny (to drop seprately) and pull the engine out of the top.  I've already got all the ancillary parts off the engine except for the distributor.

 

Thanks,

 

Scott

     

[johnsboyd]

You can do it all those ways. Where I used to work we would separate the trans, remove the hood for better access and pull it out the top. But we have at times kept the trans attached and sometimes dropped the whole lump cross member and all. It all depends. 

The easiet imo is the first way. Especially if you don’t have a lift. It’s pretty easy to get get the engine out in these guys. As I mentioned before taking the hood off makes I easier.  (Id set to TDC and take the distributor out unless you’re rebuilding it)

One thing I just remembered is sometimes the pilot bearing and input shaft on the tranny sticks. Takes some wrestling with crowbars to loosen up. 

Edited February 20, 2018 by johnsboyd

[theNomad]

It's also possible to just support the trans and unbolt/lift the engine. There's only like 6 bell housing bolts and only two engine mounts. When I pulled the trans the engine just hung out balanced on the two engine mounts. 

One small set screw on the dizzy and it pulls straight up and out. 

When I swapped the engine mounts I tied up the engine from on top. 
Since I still have a nasty engine bay and subframe I'll be suspending the engine from on top (4x4 and bolts/chain) then dropping the front subframe. This'll allow me to refurb the oil pan and clean all the crud and do the bushings etc.

Then it's off to the rear sub to do it all again!

[ray_]

And scribe your hood bolts in order to obviate hood alignment headaches later  

[conkitchen]

2 hours ago, ray_ said:

....obviate....

Check out the big brain on Ray. You got my vote

[flagoworld]

I did this with limited space and somewhat limited tools/infrastructure. Here's how I did it:

 

1.) Remove the hood. Get a helping hand to hold it on the other side while removing.

2.) Remove the radiator

3.) Unbolt the bolts holding the transmission to the motor. You don't even need to lift the car. Just reach around either side to unbolt them all.

4.) Unbolt the bell housing access panel at the bottom of the bell housing. It will fall to the ground. If you don't unbolt it, the flywheel will get caught on it.

5.) Remove the oil filter, because it's easier to maneuver with it out

6.) Unbolt the exhaust manifold from the head. I found this easier than pulling the motor out with the manifold. It will kind of hang there and put stress on the exhaust pipe, so maybe prop it up from below. You can remove it entirely later. IF the bolts between the manifold and the downpipe are not completely seized like mine were, the book recommends unbolting it there and leaving the manifold attached to the head.

7.) Unbolt the motor mounts, and remove the motor with your hoist

8.) Put the car on jacks

9.) Unbolt the exhaust and get it out of the way of the transmission. Prop it up with a block of wood or an extra jack stand

10.) Put a transmission jack or similar under the transmission

11.) Unbolt the transmission mounts and get them out of the way

13.) Use a crescent wrench (or if you have a combo wrench big enough use that) on the inside nuts of the guibo and use an impact wrench to remove those guibo bolts. I used my foot to rotate the back wheels to spin the guibo as I did this.

14.) Prop the drive shaft up on something to prevent it from putting too much stress on the u joint

15.) Maneuver the transmission out

 

I was surprised at how easy it was! I shoved all my hardware into one box. I then measured and categorized everything and bought all new hardware. If you aren't gonna do that, just put them in boxes labeled appropriately and use realoem.com to put them back where they belong... Fortunately most things are pretty obvious where they go.

[Dionk]

3 hours ago, Hodgepodge said:

The problem I'm having is that a surprising number of older references, links and a guide or two are simply are no longer available on the site. 

+1

[2002Scoob]

I did mine both out, and back in, by hand, it's quite doable as a 1-man job. I dropped my whole front subframe out the bottom and it was easy as pie.I see no need to remove the hood, I think I'd be more likely to damage it separate from the car than attached. 

 

What kinda' tools do you have at your disposal? 

 

I needed-

-A high-lift jack

-2 high-lift jack-stands

-An engine hoist

-a low-profile wooden roller dolly 

-misc. ratchet straps. 

 

I was rebuilding my motor, and one thing that really helped was pulling the head off ahead of time. it 6-8 inches less height you have to lift the body to get it out the front. I like to leave the exhaust manifold, intake/carbs all attached and remove as a complete assembly, then tear-down at the bench. Assembly you want to be a bit more careful, but Install the carbs/manifold to the head first. 

 

I started with

 

1. draining block/radiator, removing radiator, and disconnecting all hoses (don't forget the ones at the back going to your heater core.) 

2. make sure you have all electrical disconnected in the engine bay, including the harness that goes to your distributor, starter, and alternator. Don't forget the ground strap. 

3. Moving to the firewall, disconnect your throttle linkage, fuel lines, etc.  

4.Get under-neath and disconnect and pull aside your Clutch Slave cylinder, and separate your steering shaft from your steering box at the guibo. Also disconnect your exhaust and remove the whole shebang, if you haven't already if you pulled the head. 

5. Disconnect your driveshaft by dropping the center bearing and disconnecting at the guibo. While you're there, unplug your reverse light harness, and pull your speedo. cable. Also be sure to remove your shift-knob/boot inside.

6. Some people seem to approach the struts differently. I completely removed mine, as I didn't feel comfortable dropping the front end with them attached, and risk them slapping into the inside of the fenders. I did this by pulling the wheel, disconnecting the calipers and wiring them to the inside of the fender-well. Then separate the strut from the steering arm via the 3 bolts that should be safety wired underneath.  Set them aside. 

8. From below I used a low-profile, cheap 3-wheeled wooden dolly which I rachet-strapped to the front subframe, being sure to eyeball the center of gravity, and support both the subframe and the tail end of the transmission.

9. From above I used an engine hoist to support the motor via the alternator loop and the block loop just above the starter. 

10. I keep the front of the car at mid-height on the jackstands from here, you want only lower the assembly as much as necessary. Remember physics about potential energy and a rock on a high hill? same rule applies here. Potential energy is proportionally equal to potential disaster.

11. After supporting the front assembly with a jack from below, crack your front subframe bolts free, and alternate dropping the jack/lowering the engine hoist little by little till you're clear, and set her down on Terra Firma. 

12. Now that everything is safely supported on the ground and able to roll, Lift the front end SKY HIGH on jackstands. Like, your tailpipe is almost on the ground high, enough so that you have clearance to roll everything out the front. 

 

And that's it! It's really not too bad of a job. Have fun! 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by 2002Scoob

[Simeon]

Elsewhere on the site is the link to the BMW shop manual. This describes, in detail, the steps towards lifting out the engine. 

 

Out the top is is straight forward, risking paint and panels but dropping the fron subframe with gearbox is probably the easiest. 

 

Either way the method is simple, just keep disconnecting and undoing stuff until the engine comes out. 

[Hodgepodge]

Hi Simeon, 

 

Thanks for the info.   I have several hard and softcover shop manuals but they are kind of old school, describing some things in detail and others in general, often expecting you to have BMW-specific tools as well as a car lift, transmission lift and engine hoist, with far too few relavant images.  (re-installation is the reverse of removal.....)  I'm the type to really like the abridged Simeon instructions above: "Just keep disconnecting and undoing stuff until the engine comes out."   That is, after all, what many of us do.  

 

Here's the kind of stuff I'm looking for:

 

I do not have an engine hoist but will get one if out the top makes the most sense (hoists and levelers are surprisingly cheap at Harbor Freight here).   The reason I'm leaning that way is that I want the car to be a roller so I can take it to media blasting and paint.  I also need to clean-up and replace parts on the entire suspension system, but had planned to do that one corner, or perhaps one end at a time.    Now, if dropping everything out the bottom is really easiest, then I suppose I can do that, pull the engine off the subframe, clean up everything in front, put the subframe/suspension back and work on the engine while the car is at paint.  Or, in the whole-lotta-work department, I could build a rolling jig, pull both ends of the car out and send the body to paint on the jig.  So many damn choices are creating paralysis.   Ha ha, finished by July.  Sure.....  :-)  

 

If I drop everything out of the bottom, there are some pretty nice jigs and jackstand rigs that I see images of here in the forum.  This article, for example, is awesome.  

https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/67892-motor-drop-and-plant/

However, as wonderful as Bill's article is, he still has a lot more equipment than I do and a lot more room.   Looks like he's using a motorcycle jack to get the motor out and back in, for example.  I see other articles showing the engine going back in with just a floor jack but it looks pretty scary.  

 

I have a lot more to take out before I even make a decision on removing the engine.  But I do have a lot of new parts going into this car and having a less than clean and tidy engine compartment and underside in an otherwise restored car is likely to be something I'll regret. 

 

For those who've read this far, if you have seen any interesting lift or drop jigs or configurations, please send me the links.  

 

Thanks a bunch for your help.  It is much appreciated!   

 

Scott

 

 

         

 

[Hodgepodge]

Scoob, thanks for the steps.  You included several things that were missing from my puzzle.  I kind of like the use the engine hoist to lift the enigne/subframe idea instead of jacking from below.  I also like the idea of removing the struts to keep things more manageable.   

 

Thanks!  

[tii74]

Option 2. About to go back in. ?

 

 

 

 

[jimk]

14 hours ago, ray_ said:

And scribe your hood bolts in order to obviate hood alignment headaches later

And if the behind the grill bolts are taken out instead of the hinge to hood bolts there is only the height to worry about.  Hinge to hood bolts means fore/aft and yaw positions.  Fore/aft setting also means the hood clamp down brackets.

[2002Scoob]

3 hours ago, jimk said:

And if the behind the grill bolts are taken out instead of the hinge to hood bolts there is only the height to worry about.  Hinge to hood bolts means fore/aft and yaw positions.  Fore/aft setting also means the hood clamp down brackets.

 

I still don't get the reasoning behind removing it, if but to drive around for a few days without a hood once it's all back in   It never got in my way wrenching, ever. And sounds like more of a PITA than leaving it. 

[Simeon]

There are many ways to skin this cat and it depends entirely on the tools and facilities that you have available (or even the number of willing helpers). If you have an engine crane, block and tackle or other device to lift then out of the top looks better. If you only have a floor jack then dropping the engine with subframe looks do-able.  If you tell us what you have tool-wise, we can suggest a method. If you have a bunch of guys around you can get them to lift the body off the front subframe as it stands on the floor. The key is improvisation in a safe way but there are a lot of variables here that makes a single, definitive method very tricky to describe. 

 

A favourite is is to get an engine crane, use this to drop the front subframe and trans to the floor (after undoing a bunch of stuff). You then use the engine crane, slung via the strut top holes in the inner wings, to lift the body up and backwards over the engine before dragging the engine out from underneath. There are even variations on this theme where you can pull the engine off the subframe while still under the car to allow it to be laid down. The problem here is trying to do this in reverse for refitting.