Today's question: Dealing with engine compartment bits....

[Hodgepodge]

Hi All, 

 

I'm in the process of cleaning years of oil and fluid sludge from the engine and engine compartment and have a couple of what might be pretty basic questions.  I mentioned before that this was the grimiest engine compartment I've ever had, worse than any of the british cars I have restored.   I am still trying to keep the engine in the car during this process and am also trying to do pretty much everything except media blasting, powdercoating and body paint myself.   So here are the questions:

 

1.  This car had an original "factory" A/C system installed that was in working condition.  I am not planning on reinstalling the original system because of the boat anchor compressor, but I'm not sure about the hoses that run along the right fender through the firewall to the evaporator.  I have not yet started to dismantle the inside of the car.  I just need to figure out what to do with these hoses.  Cap them?  Cut them?   They are sealed pretty nicely against the firewall.   Here's the actual question.  If I install a more modern A/C in this car, will there ever be a need for these, or should I just cut them and remove them?    Image below. 

 

 

2.  The wiring harness on the passenger side is thoroughly soaked with oil/brake fluid.  In addition, I will need to detach the harness from everywhere in order to clean/paint, and I need figure out a best place for it while doing the cleaning and painting.  Questions:  What is the best stuff to use to clean/degrease the harness (or do I need to unwrap and re-wrap it) and where is the best place to coil the harness as I am cleaning and painting?  It does not look like I can push it all through the fender well hole under the fuse box, but that would be my first guess.  Image below. 

 

 

3. I've got all new cooling system hoses and will be installing those later as I put everything back together, but those hoses don't include the heater hoses that feed through the firewall to the heater box.  Seems kind of dumb to replace all of the hoses except the ones going to the heater box, but I am not quite sure what's involved in getting to them under the dash.  The heater on this car worked fine when I tested it so no rebuild is needed.  Are the hoses easy to get to/replace or is this a major effort?  (Hose replacement and valve repair was a nightmare on my E12, E28 and E34 BMWs.)  Doesd it make sense to just cut them at the firewall and replace them once I get under the dash?   Again, I have not yet started to take the interior apart and it's been 20 years since my last 2002 so I thought I would ask.  Image of those hoses below.  (note original fuel line and brake booster vacuum line....) 

 

4.  I am going to replace all of the moving components in the brake system so the system is as-new. I have a new master cylinder to replace the one that is leaking, and am planning to have the booster rebuilt.  I also have all new calipers, pistons, discs and drums and new stainless-wrapped flexible lines from Ireland Engineering.   But I originally was going to keep all of the hard brake lines unless I find something broken or crushed.  But now I'm reconsidering that. Ireland Engineering sells a complete cunifer hardline replacement kit that looks pretty interesting.  Two questions here. Since I'm replacing everything else, does replacing all the lines make sense, or does my orignal assumption that the hardlines are not likely to fail hold true?   And if I decide to replace them, how difficult is it to do with the engine in the car? 

 

5.  OK, last question.  The insulating foam on the firewall is in pretty bad shape.  Can I get it off and replace it with the engine still in the car, or should i just leave it alone?  

  

Sorry hat was so long.  More questions than I thought.....    

 

As always, I appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.   

 

Scott

 

 

 

     

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Hodgepodge

[halboyles]

21 minutes ago, Hodgepodge said:

What is the best stuff to use to clean/degrease the harness (or do I need to unwrap and re-wrap it)

 

 

Simple green works well for this.  And, yes, you will need to remove the old wrapping to actually get the harness clean.  It is amazing how much gunk gets underneath that stuff.

23 minutes ago, Hodgepodge said:

how difficult is it to do with the engine in the car? 

 

It can be done with the engine in the car fairly easily.  And since the new brake lines will bend rather easily without deforming they can be manipulated to get around things.  Certainly makes the job look complete though the slight green color of the new lines won't look period correct,... I don't think.

[Conserv]

Long request, Scott,

 

Let me address the first one, regarding A/C.

 

You will not, unless you’re looking for trouble, re-use any of the old A/C lines.  Remove them.  Some people might say keep the old lines in case you want them as templates.  But assuming you re-activate the A/C, you will likely install a new Sanden-style rotary compressor, new receiver-dryer, and, probably, new condenser, all of which will likely demand slightly different A/C lines — different in both length and end fittings (especially if you move to R-134) — so even I, a notorious hoarder of old parts, would trash the old lines.  

 

You may possibly re-use the original evaporator-blower — the component in the console — so I would recommend you cap those lines to keep “stuff” out of the evaporator until you’re ready to re-activate the system.  If you don’t re-use the original evaporator-blower, someone else will want it: it’s the only operating component of the original systems that most people will re-use.

 

By the by, there is no such thing as “factory A/C” on an ‘02.  It was strictly installed by BMW dealerships or post-dealership (by A/C shops, garages, owners, etc.).  The fact that you referred to yours as factory suggests it is probably a Behr system, the most “factory” appearing of the three most common systems: Frigiking, Behr, and Clardy.

 

Read lots on this forum, and in Rob Siegel’s upcoming book, before you re-activate the A/C!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Conserv

[ray_]

40 minutes ago, Hodgepodge said:

Hi All, 

 

I'm in the process of cleaning years of oil and fluid sludge from the engine and engine compartment and have a couple of what might be pretty basic questions.  I mentioned before that this was the grimiest engine compartment I've ever had, worse than any of the british cars I have restored.   I am still trying to keep the engine in the car during this process and am also trying to do pretty much everything except media blasting, powdercoating and body paint myself.   So here are the questions:

 

1.  This car had an original factory A/C system installed that was in working condition.  I am not planning on reinstalling the original system because of the boat anchor compressor, but I'm not sure about the hoses that run along the right fender through the firewall to the evaporator.  I have not yet started to dismantle the inside of the car.  I just need to figure out what to do with these hoses.  Cap them?  Cut them?   They are sealed pretty nicely against the firewall.   Here's the actual question.  If I install a more modern A/C in this car, will there ever be a need for these, or should I just cut them and remove them? 

New systems use O-ring fittings. I'd consider all old lines suspect and replace them.

There was no factory a/c on 2002's

 

40 minutes ago, Hodgepodge said:

 

  Image below. 

 

 

2.  The wiring harness on the passenger side is thoroughly soaked with oil/brake fluid.  In addition, I will need to detach the harness from everywhere in order to clean/paint, and I need figure out a best place for it while doing the cleaning and painting.  Questions:  What is the best stuff to use to clean/degrease the harness (or do I need to unwrap and re-wrap it) and where is the best place to coil the harness as I am cleaning and painting?  It does not look like I can push it all through the fender well hole under the fuse box, but that would be my first guess.  Image below. 

 

 

3. I've got all new cooling system hoses and will be installing those later as I put everything back together, but those hoses don't include the heater hoses that feed through the firewall to the heater box.  Seems kind of dumb to replace all of the hoses except the ones going to the heater box, but I am not quite sure what's involved in getting to them under the dash.  The heater on this car worked fine when I tested it so no rebuild is needed.  Are the hoses easy to get to/replace or is this a major effort?  (Hose replacement and valve repair was a nightmare on my E12, E28 and E34 BMWs.)  Doesd it make sense to just cut them at the firewall and replace them once I get under the dash?   Again, I have not yet started to take the interior apart and it's been 20 years since my last 2002 so I thought I would ask.  Image of those hoses below.  (note original fuel line and brake booster vacuum line....) 

 

The heater hoses are accessible under the cowl. No hoses are in the passenger compartment. The heater box rebuild instructions in the tech articles on the site are quite good, tho the pics are gone. I have a pdf with pics I might attach here  

 

40 minutes ago, Hodgepodge said:

 

4.  I am going to replace all of the moving components in the brake system so the system is as-new. I have a new master cylinder to replace the one that is leaking, and am planning to have the booster rebuilt.  I also have all new calipers, pistons, discs and drums and new stainless-wrapped flexible lines from Ireland Engineering.   But I originally was going to keep all of the hard brake lines unless I find something broken or crushed.  But now I'm reconsidering that. Ireland Engineering sells a complete cunifer hardline replacement kit that looks pretty interesting.  Two questions here. Since I'm replacing everything else, does replacing all the lines make sense, or does my orignal assumption that the hardlines are not likely to fail hold true?   And if I decide to replace them, how difficult is it to do with the engine in the car? 

Good question. I bent and flared all new lines for the ugly car. The only original component is the rear T fitting. I'm happy to have ALL the hydraulics done at one time. The motor is not especially in the way. 

40 minutes ago, Hodgepodge said:

 

5.  OK, last question.  The insulating foam on the firewall is in pretty bad shape.  Can I get it off and replace it with the engine still in the car, or should i just leave it alone?  

You can. Factory type replacements may not be available tho. 

 

 

40 minutes ago, Hodgepodge said:

  

Sorry hat was so long.  More questions than I thought.....    

 

As always, I appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.   

 

Scott

 

 

 

     

 

 

 

 

heater_box_removal_and_refurbishment.pdf

[Hodgepodge]

All,  thanks for the great responses!    I menat to put "factory" in quotes since what I really meant was "original".  Same with the Mercedes of the timeframe.  This is/was the Behr system, I think. 

 

OK, AC hoses go but cap-off the evaporator.  The whole mechanism inside the car looks pristine so I will likely be reusing it.  Any suggestions on where to get the caps, or is this just a put-a-balloon-over-it thing. 

 

Simple Green or similar and unwrap the harness to clean it.  OK.  I've got plenty of Simple Green.  What color was that wrap originally?  Blue? Black?  Suggestions on where to get a suitable replacement wrap?  

 

The heater hoses terminate under what would be the wiper valance on most cars (between inner and outer firewalls) and not in the passenger compartment.  OK.  I just went out and moved the protective covers I've got up there and confirmed.  Excellent.  Easy to replace without messing with the heater box.

 

Sounds like replacing the brake lines is a good idea and in the grand scheme of things, just one more fairly involved step.  Is that IE set a good way to go or are there better alternatives?  

 

The firewall padding can be removed and replaced with the engine in place.  I've replaced this stuff on other cars, but it was up higher on the firewall.  I see an original part number 51487450110 that is still available with a best price of $193.34.  Is this what others have used?  I want to keep it looking as original as possible.  Other suggestions?  I'll check the other padding/insulation as I get further along.  

 

Thanks again for the responses.  Please feel free to add more!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Hodgepodge

['76mintgrün'02]

5 minutes ago, Hodgepodge said:

Black?  Suggestions on where to get a suitable replacement wrap?  

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EH6IZ6Y/ref=asc_df_B00EH6IZ6Y5376726/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395009&creativeASIN=B00EH6IZ6Y&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167151899683&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5614431990440352312&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033285&hvtargid=pla-309634072467

 

$4 w/ free shipping!

 

  Friction tape at the hardware store is similar, but I find it's not sticky enough.

[halboyles]

21 minutes ago, Hodgepodge said:

Is that IE set a good way to go or are there better alternatives?

 

AceAndrew here on the forum makes custom fitting lines for the '02s.  I believe they are stainless steel so would last forever.

[Teelinger]

Re: firewall insulation. I believe this is @AceAndrew on Instagram

James

 

[ray_]

There's been recent discussions about firewall insulation, availability and quality. I recall some thumbs down on the current BMW offering...

 

Edit: Andrew's looks good!

Edited February 19, 2018 by ray_

[Conserv]

9 minutes ago, ray_ said:

...I recall some thumbs down on the current BMW offering...

 

 

Hey, Ray,

 

And I thought the OEM BMW part was not currently available — although it was available until recently — and the various aftermarket solutions got a thumbs down.... ?

 

I was reading carefully because my ‘73 is likely going to need a new one.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[ray_]

You're more correct than me this time ?

 

Andrew's is the best bet I believe.

 

Cheers,

[AceAndrew]

Since it's been brought up.

 

 Yes, I make the hardlines.  IE is one of the resellers.  To toot the firewall pad a bit .... the firewall pad is being finished and is deigned to be BETTER than the original in terms of insolation and keeping crud out from behind it (while still appearing correct) vs. something produced for a quick buck.  To be very honest, this is a part being developed by a good friend, he should have some numbers very shortly.

 

Even though I'm making more bits (and have some REALLY fun stuff in the pipelines) my intent is not to be on here hawking my wares.  I will likely post something in the classifieds, but will only address questions as they pop up periodically.

Edited February 19, 2018 by AceAndrew

[SydneyTii]

2 hours ago, Teelinger said:

Re: firewall insulation. I believe this is @AceAndrew on Instagram

James

 

LHD only I assume? 

[theNomad]

Looks like you want to do quite a bit. I had an engine that was covered in peanut butter like sludge; so much that the freeze plug with a hole in it didn't even leak.

I did it with the engine in the car, and I know there are small areas that didn't get clean. After taking all that stuff off the engine, and having replaced the engine mounts and having pulled the trans out twice now, I would 100% pull the engine if I could do it again. It really isn't that much further from where you're at. You'd be able to easily access everything, clean everything spotless and even do a simple engine clean and paint, gasket refresh,oil pan clean/paint/seal, coolant hoses, water pump etc. 

 

[Hodgepodge]

Nomad, Yes, quite a bit.  I renovate houses and cars as long time hobbies.   Both have their headaches and triumphs.  Trying to get this one ready for tyhe Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix in July.  

 

One of the issues with pulling the engine is that I am truly doing all this work myself and I do not have the heavy lifting (or dropping) components that would make it easy, just a lot of jackstands and a floor jack.   I also only have one spot in the house garage for this car and there is a nearly infinite amount of other stuff to do (plus a couple of other cars I'm working on...).   Still, I do realize that right now, with the engine and tranny only attached to the car at the mount points and the guibo, would probably be the best time to pull it if I do decide to.  The front subframe is a greasy mess too and having it all out would make lide a lot easier.   I'm just going to keep cleaning and see what kind of success I have not pulling it, and if I'm not happy, I'll go ahead and pull it.    

Edited February 19, 2018 by Hodgepodge