$1800 for BMW horse hair front seat/backrest pads!

[Conserv]

50 minutes ago, Dan Seattle said:

Certainly there are a great many car seats out there that are not horse hair?  Are there that many horses?   Arguably wouldn't anything sufficently firm fulfill the same function? What am I missing?   Other than the ability to say it's horse hair, why does it matter if your rear ended cannot tell the difference?  

 

Well, I’m not even certain there is any “horse” left in the modern “horsehair,” but my butt can certainly tell the difference between the gummihaar pads and foam rubber.  If yours cannot, then you should not invest in the “horsehair pads”.

 

The “horsehair pads” have a different firmness and density than foam rubber.  And horsehair — or whatever the hell it is — has a structural strength not present in foam rubber of similar dimension.  Thus, the horsehair pads provide the distinct flat and sharp-edged contours of the original seats, with seat cushion bolsters that essentially cantilever out from the sides of the seat.

 

I may be — correction, I am — nuttier than most ‘02 enthusiasts, but I’d wager I can distinguish an ‘02 seat stuffed with foam rubber from one stuffed with a gummihaar pad both by appearance and feel. I suspect I represent a minority of ‘02 and potential ‘02 owners.

 

First photo:  front seats from May 1968 English-language brochure

Second photo:  front seats from 1975-76 U.S. brochure

Third photo:  front seats for my October 1972-manufactured ‘73

Fourth photo:  front seats for my April 1976-manufactured ‘76

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Conserv

[Glen Karr]

6 hours ago, Conserv said:

The “horsehair pads” have a different firmness and density than foam rubber.  And horsehair — or whatever the hell it is — has a structural strength not present in foam rubber of similar dimension.  Thus, the horsehair pads provide the distinct flat and sharp-edged contours of the original seats, with seat cushion bolsters that essentially cantilever out from the sides of the seat.

Steve,

When I was looking to recondition my seats I contacted two premier auto upholsterers and asked if they would redo my seats with foam.  Both refused stating that they could not duplicate the feel nor the contours as you stated above.  Needless to say I bit the bullet and ordered the gummihaar . 

Best

Glen

[martinsmith]

the gummihaar pads from BMW Germany have risen over 400% in the last few years!

 

[D Seattle]

Good points, but it does stil rather beg the question of what other car manufacturers use or what other substance would replicate the experience on a person's rear-end.   Obviously you don't want it to squish and foam may break down.  But I suspect not every other car manufacture uses the pads from BMW yet I have had a variety of old cars over the years and the seats were adquately firm.  

 

Interestig conversation.

[JohnP_02]

Yikes! I went back to check my spreadsheet to see how much I paid for the horsepuckygummihaarhaarhaar pads a few years ago as I remember it being painful - $390 for both bottoms, $250 for both backs, so ~$650 for the set! With the final expense Of the complete seat redo being close to $2K I can’t inagjne paying $1,800 just for the pads. A gorgeous set of recarros can be had for $1,500. That being said I do love the results of the gobi tan interior in my ‘76.

 

 

I do recall jgrock mentioning VW pads that were available for a fraction of the cost, and yep, I just checked $38 for a back pad. They won’t fit exactly of course - but maybe a decent option with some crimping and trimming? Coukd be worth a shot for that price. Here is the link:  http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=113881775Q

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by JohnP_02

[Healey3000]

BMW uses only Lippizzaner stallions for the hair.  White ones, of course.  That way, the color is consistent when the rubber compound is poured in.

 

VW uses any old farm horse it can find.  That's gotta be it.

[martinsmith]

yes thanks for the link to the VW pads... I've read elsewhere on this sight that they don't work so am bit shy...

mind you at that price really lose nothing trying!

 

to put the seat pad cost in perspective what would cost me to use the BMW Germany pads plus

say $600 for intalsation = $2400.... there is a '74 Tii complete engine on ebay for $2500...

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1974-BMW-2002tii-Engine-Complete-Injection-Pump-Fuel-Injectors-2002-tii-1600-E10/183049246161?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

 

and a whole car (needing resto) on ebay for 2500 pounds sterling...

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Rare-BMW-2000-Touring-1971-Barn-Find-poss-earliest-survivor-chassis-No-9/372220031106?_trkparms=pageci%3Af33740e8-133c-11e8-9b15-74dbd1801621|parentrq%3A9f9cde581610a86659d28d47fff5c73e|iid%3A1&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236

[TobyB]

When you can't make it up in volume, you make money on the individual item, I suppose.

 

Now, given that the sale price of a tii has gone up 400% in the last 15 years,

it only makes sense that the seat pads have kept pace.

 

I suppose one could say that the value of your automotive hobby dollar's 20% of what it used to be,

applying faulty percentage mathematics.

 

Foam padded seats (I've worked with Toyota and Honda) have a wire structure cast into them, and

quite a bit of metal embedded in useful places.  The underpan is shaped to help, too.

This keeps the foam in shape when the covers go on, and the butts go in. 

When the pads get to a thousand a pop, the few nutters who have to have an original

car AND who aren't made of car hobby money could get a similar pad made for the 2002.  Development cost

would be high, but the per- unit cost would be more manageable.

 

All that said, I strongly suspect that the pads BMW are selling are made by a third party.  Almost everything

else 'tradition' or whatever is....

 

I too tried VW pads, but had no luck with them.

 

t

likes Recaros just fine, thank you very much.

[D Seattle]

9 minutes ago, Healey3000 said:

BMW uses only Lippizzaner stallions for the hair.  White ones, of course.  That way, the color is consistent when the rubber compound is poured in.

 

VW uses any old farm horse it can find.  That's gotta be it.

 

Yeah, but BMW has to paint the pads white.  (Bonus points for id'ing the move reference)

[martinsmith]

yes just spoke to someone at Wolfsburgh West about their VW 'horsehair' seat pads... he said their seats were manufactured by a third party but said he couldn't /wouldn't give me the name... trade secret... does anyone who tried installing these VW seat pads find any manufacturing ID in them?... would be interesting contacting that company to see if they are the ones making BMWs?...

[joebarthlow]

Anyone considered making "horse hair" style seat pads in the US? Figure out materials, make a mold, do some testing?

 

If BMW is selling for $1000+/set, seems to me there's enough volume in the US to produce a set to sell at 1/3 of the price with enough mark-up to make it worth it. 

 

I'm in need for some pads too. thought about testing, customizing a VW pad, but the width measurements don't work out.

[martinsmith]

I'm in as well Joe....

[02Les]

4 hours ago, martinsmith said:

the gummihaar pads from BMW Germany have risen over 400% in the last few years!

 

Various parts that I bought for my Touring refurb late 2015 are currently anywhere from 35 to 200% higher; those that haven't gone NLA in the meantime.

Thankfully, I had been buying the more expensive parts several years ago, leaving only relatively minor parts to get, or goodness knows what my expenditure total would have been.

Edited February 16, 2018 by 02Les

[martinsmith]

need blueprints of pads....

 

[joebarthlow]

4 minutes ago, martinsmith said:

need blueprints of pads....

 

or a healthy or new pad