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Hodgepodge

Today's questions: intake water jacket and engine mount

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I got the intake manifold off today (Yay!).   Using 1/4 inch sockets and a universal worked like a champ for all the nuts underneath (Thanks Preyupy!)  except for the #1 intake, which I wrestled off using an open crescent.  No grinding of tools needed. 

 

I thought you might get a kick out of the image I took of the engine without the intake manifold because of one small item in it.   

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If you look closely, you will see a crud covered screwdriver sitting on the starter.  It was NOT sitting on the starter before I removed the manifold so it was probably lost in the baffles of the intake manifold by the previous owner over 15 years ago.  I also found about a dozen wave washers, some hose clamps and a couple of nuts and bolts.  Every hose on this side of the engine crumbled when I removed them.   

 

 

Couple of questions for you guys that have done this before and are always out there answering questions.   

 

1.  The new cannon manifold is, of course, much cleaner looking than the original, but it completely lacks a water jacket.  Somebody mentioned a bottom plate from an "early" 2002 that attaches to the bottom in a different thread.  Does anyone know which parts those are?   BMW part numbers would be handy.   When I look in realOEM, part numbers for early cars aren't listed because I used my VIN.  Rather than trying to hit the right parts by entering earlier years, I thought I'd just ask here.    You can see in the picture below and how there is a place for this mystery water jacket part.    

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While on the subject, what the heck is the use of this water jacket, anyway?  I get that theoretically, it is supposed to cool the air/fuel mixture, but in practice, coolant tempurature is usually higher than ambient tempurature, possibly even in the engine compartment.  I currently own and have previously had several other cars with top and side-draft carbs and I've never seen this "feature".   So why is it important here?   I still plan on putting it back in, of course, so any help tracking down the parts would be greatly appreciated.  

 

Oh, and of course, two of the replacement coolant hoses I bought for the car are now wrong because the water jacket positions are different.  Any help identifying the correct ones would also be appreciated.   

 

OK, second question:

When I look at the motor mounts on realOEM I see a brick-style mount on the driver side, and a can-style mount on the passenger side.  In fact, I bought replacement mounts based on that.  But looking at the car, there is an odd, square hangar-style mount on the driver side.  See image below.  

SCH_5776s.thumb.jpg.24bba585848bfefcb7d9c0a15d0bcbbb.jpg 

It looks correct for the application but I don't see it in realOEM anywhere.   Can anyone tell me if this is the correct mount and, if so, what the BMW part number is?   UNlike the one on the other side, at least this one is attached to the engine!   

 

Thanks for your help with all this.  I truly appreciate it.  

 

Scott 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Hodgepodge

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Update:  I found the engine mount (11811109351).  Looks like there was a round replacement at some point.  

 

As for the other parts, I also found the part numbers on realOEWM, but all are ended.  Crap.  

water jacket flange: 11641251663

Gasket: 11619065693

Hose connector: 1161251663

Bracket to attach to dipstick (I think) 11610707116

 

Of all those, the only part available is the gasket.  

 

No WONDER people keep returning this part to Ireland Engineering!    I'm going to keep trying to find them, though, at least for a little while.  

 

If anyone has any of these parts, please let me know!  

 

Thanks,

 

Scott

 

 

 

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Why don't you buy a single barrel manifold and pull the jacket head from it?  People are practically throwing those out and drooling over the 2 barrel version.  Trade your old 2 barrel manifold.

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That parts closes the coolant system at the manifold and allows coolant to circulate beneath the floor of the intake and provide preheat for the gas charge.  Some say it is necessary, others, some not so much.  If you live in a warm climate you can eliminate that part by connecting the collant/heater hose beneath the manifold and go on.  in areas where the weather may throw in a lot of cold weather, it is needed.  Not many of things were saved when changing to weber(s), consequently more than one made it's way to recycle. You can find one of the covers for the water jacket on an early manifold, generally one of the single barrel solex carb types.

 

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Here are pix of the urethane mounts I bought from Ireland. Some people prefer the rubber OEMs from BMW where I believe the driver side is the rectangular block with odd hanger unit built in

 

For the passenger side note the travel stop which prevents motor from moving fwd and fan trashing radiator

 

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3 hours ago, Hodgepodge said:

While on the subject, what the heck is the use of this water jacket, anyway?  I get that theoretically, it is supposed to cool the air/fuel mixture, but in practice, coolant tempurature is usually higher than ambient tempurature, possibly even in the engine compartment.

 

As mentioned, the coolant warms the manifold.  I am in the camp that believes this to be beneficial.  

 

I also believe the stock air cleaner, with its cool air intake is a good idea.

 

So, you suck cool air through a heated manifold... for the WIN !

 

Here is one of the manifolds that Jimk is referring to.  

NMNA, as they say. 

 

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Worzella, I almost bought the mounts from IE, but I went with the stock ones instead.  Looks like the drum mount on the driver's side is interchangeable with the square one I have on the car, so hopefully I can still use the one I purcahsed.   

 

Mintgrun, Now I get it about why this aftermarket manifod needs those parts.  It is the same manifold as the single barel you show, but has been recast with the larger opening.  Whoever makes them never updated the design when BMW changed them.  I put a thread in the WTB section and hopefully one will turn up.   

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Climate is the main factor for whether you need coolant plumbed to the manifold or not.  The issue is since the intake is 'behind' the throttle plate(s), the air in there is often at low pressure and thus cooler than ambient.  Add to that the latent heat taken to vaporize the fuel and it actually starts to get really cold! So how cold is too cold? Well, there's two stages: first the gasoline will start to condense and stick to the walls of the intake, causing the engine to run lean, and then the second stage is the water vapor in the air will start to freeze, causing those classic carburetor icing issues.  However in S. Carolina I've run both downdrafts and sidedrafts with all of the coolant bypassed without any issues, so again, main factor is your climate!

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I didn't realize that the link Mingrun provided was actually a for-sale link to the parts I need.  Thanks much!  I contacted pjp90 and am arranging to purchase.  

 

I live in Pennsylvania but my classics and convertibles go into storage in November, so they never really see cold weather.  I'm still going to hook all this up, though.  Just seems like the right thing to do...at least until I move back to Florida.  

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20 minutes ago, Hodgepodge said:

  I'm still going to hook all this up, though. 

Just a clue - The hose from the heater outlet to the water connection on the manifold will be for the early car, not for the later year that you had previously.  The outlet one to the pump may also be for the single barrel car.

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The nipple coming out of the block just above the starter is for a water choke, if you're manual or electric, you can block it off - PN 11111254189

The stock manifold has the other end for the hose, but your Cannon intake may not have one.

 

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That makes sense.  Wasnt sure what that was for and the hose crumbled when I removed it.  Thanks!   

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Jimk, that also makes sense.  Looks like the position of one hose nipple (the upper one) and the other (lower one, now on the flange, is different.  I'll order the "older style" hose from IE to match the set I have.  

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...that bottom cover seems to be a sacrificial anode on most early manifolds.

I haven't seen many that will come off, and often, they're so rotten they wouldn't

hold water IF you could get them off.

 

Warming the manifold matters on any cool, moist morning.  It's a lot less important when

you're stuck in traffic on I5 in 95 degree heat...

 

t

 

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3 hours ago, AustrianVespaGuy said:

Climate is the main factor for whether you need coolant plumbed to the manifold or not.

https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hcc/2015/03/Carburetor-Icing/3747511.html 

I read this article last night and found the following sentence interesting.

 

The confusing part for many is that a carburetor will suffer the most dramatic icing when the ambient temperature is between 45 and 50 degrees F--well above freezing.

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