Are these red dot ALPINA struts??

[mvliotta]

Trying to verify what I have in my basement.

 

These are tii struts, inverted shocks, with a  red mark. Are these the fabled red dot alpina racing struts?

 

How can I confirm? Lot’s of questions of whether they would be suitable for my street ‘72 tii if they are they real deal. 

 

[Son of Marty]

Well thay are Bilstein negative camber struts of some form but the dots were round and placed  about 3" below the spring perch so they may or not be red dots. The red dots are for race only and would be way out of line on a street driven car, but Bilstein America could tell you the shock rates and revalve them to yellow, green, or red dot standards, the struts reguard less of there valving are worth their weight in gold. 

[whs.de]

Hi, not every Bilstein Upside Down strut has negative camber! Check also the height of the spring plate. Normal height is the rallye variant of the strut, 20mm lowered spring plate is the track variant. Sometimes the shock rate is stamped to the shock absorber, like 300/270.

[markmac]

5 hours ago, whs.de said:

Hi, not every Bilstein Upside Down strut has negative camber! Check also the height of the spring plate. Normal height is the rallye variant of the strut, 20mm lowered spring plate is the track variant. Sometimes the shock rate is stamped to the shock absorber, like 300/270.

+1

look on the very top of the insert, the numbers may be stamped there.  As far as the 'red dot' marking goes, I have seen them with a red dot painted on them, and also like yours.  I had a set of 'green dot's' that had a splashed on green stripe similar to the red on your struts.  They look to be in pretty good shape, great find.

[mvliotta]

Interesting , thanks guys.

 

Mark,

No numbers on the insert that I can see. The dimensions are identical to the ones below (from one of your earlier posts)

 

However the base of the strut is different to yours

 

Mine are about 45 mm for both of the dimensions above.

 

More questions!:

- How can I determine the neg camber?

- Guessing these are 'more valuable' than tii struts.. why?

- If I can get them re-valved to a lower setting, then should be great for my street '72tii, no? (currently ok with the struts I have.. just thinking about future suspension rehab) 

-.... Or should these go to someone who is looking for these prices struts (for an enormous amount of $ !!)

 

Vince

 

 

 

 

[Son of Marty]

Vince probably the quickest way to determine if they are negative camber is to compare them side by side with a normal TIi strut, Their value is way more than the standard TIi strut because they work well with a modified suspension and the fact very few of them were ever made, no one probably knows how many were made but rumor is around 1000 sets but who really knows? I have a set of yellow dots that I got new in the 70's that are valved perfect  IMHO for a street/track car with lowering springs and bigger sways ECT. If they are red dots they probably would not be used for racing anymore because of the fixed spring perch as opposed to coil overs but you never know. 

[markmac]

https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/94391-alpina-front-axles-negative-camber-struts/

 

An old thread from this forum on the topic.  The red setting might be too stiff for you, you could always try them out and see how you like them.  Yellow is probably the setting you would like, but then to each his own.  Bilstein can still re-build them, I used Performance Shock (Sonoma, CA) to rebuild my AlpinA CSL Gr. 2 racing struts - they are authorized Bilstein, Koni, Ohlins etc.,  cool shop and really helpful.  Bilstein/Performance shock can convert the fixed perch to adjustable if you wanted.  Unless you 'need' to sell them or want extra cash for something else, I would hold on to them, these are getting harder to find now for sure and aren't going to go down in value.  They would work nicely on your tii.  My worthless advice.

 

[mvliotta]

Thanks guys. Will be holding on to these until I do the suspension rehab in a couple of years.

[JsnPpp]

Nice struts!

To provide another data point, the Alpina green dots on my red car have the same rectangular stripe (only green of course)...

~Jason

[mvliotta]

While tackling my suspension refresh, finally got back to these struts.

 

I did a side-by-side comparison of these Alpina struts with the tii struts that were on my car (left)

Both sets are angled exactly the same way, so no added negative camber on the Alpina set. 

The difference is in the tube diameter and spring perch height, with the Alpina set heftier and shorter by about an inch. 

 

Wanted to lower the front end just a bit so the Alpina set will work nicely on my car with the stock springs. 
 

Just need to send out the inserts to Performance Shocks in Sonoma who will revalve them to 180/90.

 

Final pic of the struts all cleaned, primed and sprayed. 
 

Now just debating whether I should recreate the original red mark on the struts or paint the mark yellow which corresponds to the new 180/90 settings.

 

Hmmmm....🤔

 

Vince

[Einspritz]

Interesting units!

 

Just so you know Performance Shocks may not be able to refurbish your shocks.

 

I took a set of Bilsteins to them to have them tested and calibrated to my specification that Bilstein did for me in 1993.

 

I had Performance test them and found that they were no longer within my specification, presumably since they had sat for decades from the "turn of the Century" (wrap your head around that statement). Unfortunately, since then Bilstein has changed the diameter of the shafts from IIRC 8mm to 10mm or somesuch, and Performance could not get the parts. They offered that they could get new shafts and machine them to fit, at a cost of IIRC $500. but that Bilstein could do it without an additional charge.

 

So, the shocks went off to Bilstein with the specification sheets, not just compression / rebound, but you know, a proper curve. It took over 6 Months and, I lost count past 20 iterations to get it within 10% of the specification; I had to be content with that as they would no longer try "again".

 

Next time I will probably have to use an alias.

 

At least you can have Performance test your shocks to see what curves you do have, see what they say, and go from there.

 

BTW if you call Bilstein, all the East coast and West coast numbers still go to their West coast center, and never expect that they will call you back.

 

Allow Months for the process.

 

Incidentally, I'm going to Performance to have a new set of Bilsteins Dynoed (for another car) to see what the OE curves are as Bilstein does not provide a curve...... When I asked the Bilstein technician for the curves for their stock consumer units, I received the reply, "uh, we don't know that information", "we probably should do that".

 

Uh huh.

 

So, there you go.

 

HTH

[Son of Marty]

Imho, I'd paint the markings with the color that is closest to the spec's they are set to, no real reason I can think of to continue the red dot if their valve to something else, it'll just confuse the situation.

[markmac]

I had Performance Shock re-build my Alpina racing struts for my Gr 2 car.  You think 'red dots' are stiff - red dot setting is 220/120, the setting on mine are 440/120.  You can barely depress them by hand.  If I were re-doing a set of these I would probably go with the yellow/sport setting 180/90.

 

I had a very positive experience with PS.  Turns out the first go around the strut tubes weren't checked for (unbelievably, they were bent),  Maybe not really the car was raced really hard for a number of years.  Unfortunately the internals were damaged.  I took them back to PS, they replaced EVERYTHING inside with new Bilstein parts (yes, the old inserts have an 8mm rod which isn't used any longer, so they have to change to a 10mm rod).  Fortunately they were able to straighten them - they aren't replaceable really other than a total custom fab job.  They did have all the parts - or could get them from Bilstein (they are a Bilstein authorized shop).  Stripped the housing down, painted them (nicely) and polished the spindles.  Like new.  They did everything on their nickel with the exception of the labor to straighten the housings - $300, and probably would have taken that as well if I hadn't insisted on paying for it - unheard of customer service in this day and age.  I highly recommend.

[uai]

What is the number on the forgings?

[markmac]

They engraved the dampening settings on the top of the tube (engraved), its a little more cleanly done now, I would guess that Alpina had them valved to their specs.  The other numbers down on the spindle/lower strut....