tii startup poor running issues - looking for clues

[golftii]

folks, in process of reinstalling KF pump in 72 tii after rebuild by H&R (therefore: pump, warm up regulator, and injectors all calibrated to spec)

 

but having difficulty getting running well at all;

symptoms are after firing (with or without cold start injector disabled) for about 5 seconds get pinging (lean?) and stumbling

 

have tried everything I have ever heard of without success, to summarize:

• all filters and hoses in fuel circuit are new and clean, pickup in tank is clean; tank itself super clean no gunk/rust; fuel relatively fresh Shell VPower 93 RON
• pressure at KF inlet about 25 PSI, drops slightly when engine fires - any chance that this is too low and needs to be all the way up to spec of 30 PSI?
• have tried with both original type (~60 psi static pressure output) and new type (~90 psi static) fuel pumps; volume output checked and OK per spec
• new red coil, no ballast resistor; timing light indicates spark at each cylinder, (pertronix in disti)
• usual double check of all linkages and throttle settings

 

Looking for more ideas to diagnose and resolve; this is reminiscent of Rob Siegel's epic battle immortalized here and in his blog...

 

[Simeon]

Is the car idling when you get the pinging? Is that definitely what you mean as pinging at idle would be pretty extreme? How's your ignition timing set?

['76mintgrün'02]

21 minutes ago, golftii said:

new red coil, no ballast resistor; timing light indicates spark at each cylinder, (pertronix in disti)

 

I believe the red coil will require a resistor to make the Pertronix happy.

 

You can measure its resistance to confirm.

 

Pertronix likes 3 ohms.

[PaulTWinterton]

I've been told by a pump rebuilder (Wes Ingram) that the pump will work properly at 15psi and above, so I would eliminate that as your problem.

 

If all your linkages are correctly adjusted and the idle screw and air screw are not in play, the engine should run but require fine tuning of the air screw.  Worst scenario should be that the cam (in tuna can) would need to cover part of the 4mm hole rather than sit at the edge of the hole.  This is achieved by adjusting the 10mm bolt on the intermediate shaft (with the 5mm tool in place at idle position).

 

My red coil requires a resistor, but I run points  I don't know the Petronix system so others will have to give more advice.

 

With points you must set dwell at 58-61 degrees before tuning of the KFish.  Can you revert to points?  If so, make sure you add the resistor back in-line.

[chargin]

Take a Tii to a Pro, to many Micro variables to sort on your own.

 

Just my opinion and worth what you paid, $0.00

 

[golftii]

thanks, working with several pros already
PS: I went to HS in SP

[ray_]

This seems weird. Check to see that your spark plug cables are in the right order.

 

Post a video.

 

Where are you?

 

Cheers,

[JerryC]

Could the injection pump pulley be 180° out of timing with the ignition? I've read elsewhere that the car will run in this state, but not very well.

[Ensign]

7 hours ago, golftii said:

new red coil, no ballast resistor; timing light indicates spark at each cylinder, (pertronix in disti)

FWIW: My '72 tii has a red coil, Pertronix and resistor.

Good luck with figuring it out!

Tony

Edited October 23, 2017 by Ensign

[jgerock]

3 hours ago, ray_ said:

This seems weird. Check to see that your spark plug cables are in the right order.

 

Post a video.

 

Where are you?

 

Cheers,

+1

 

 

[dlacey]

Air leak in warmup regulator to manifold plumbing.

I have had that hose split before, it's difficult to see and easy to overlook a leak there...Will run very weak.

[golftii]

Thanks to everyone for responses so far, haven't cracked this nut yet but seems like having trouble with enough fuel reaching intake. Spark looks good on all 4. Working back from injectors, anyone have recommendation or experience in completely bleeding air out from KF through lines out to injectors? Wondering if that could be an issue still. Already have loosened suction valve covers to purge air out top of KF (and retightened of course). After that is it just crank?

[PaulTWinterton]

5 minutes ago, golftii said:

anyone have recommendation or experience in completely bleeding air out from KF through lines out to injectors?

 

Not required.  I have installed 2 restored pumps in the last 3 months.  One I did yesterday.  Neither had any issues with bleeding air and pumping fuel after 10 crank revolutions.

 

KF pump (sprocket) lined up with TDC?  Confirm that it's not 180 degrees out.  Only way to be sure is to check the cam mark under the oiler bar in the cylinder head.  Sometimes I would trust the distributor rotor pointed at No1 cylinder, but with Petronix I don't know enough.

 

If your fuel injection system is set up by the book, I'd look more closely at ignition.  Just to be certain...you did confirm that your plug wires are in the correct order?  Are you willing to revert to points to eliminate the Petronix variable?

[golftii]

On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 5:05 PM, Ensign said:

FWIW: My '72 tii has a red coil, Pertronix and resistor.

Good luck with figuring it out!

Tony

FYI Checked and my new red coil is 1.5 ohm (old blue is 0.4 ohm) so have added back ballast resistor. (but this has made no difference to issue)

[golftii]

18 hours ago, PaulTWinterton said:

Just to be certain...you did confirm that your plug wires are in the correct order?  Are you willing to revert to points to eliminate the Petronix variable?

Yes, plugs in right order. I'll follow up on eliminating Pertronix. And double checking sprocket phase.

 

Can anyone describe if there is a visual test to confirm fuel at injector? i.e., if an injector is removed from head and cranked, would expect to see obvious fuel mist pattern? microscopic dribble? nothing to naked eye?

I've seen injector spray on test bench, but not installed with KF tiny metered amount per rev.