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Perpetual starting issue


mataku527

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1 hour ago, torquewrench80 said:

 

@ 2002Scoob - Have you actually bolted the Unipoint starter in or at least checked it to see that if fits properly?

 

I just did, bolted right up no issues. Every visual inclination points to it being a match. 

 

I'm double-checking my work right now and will be test-starting shortly. 

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Ray

Stop reading this! Don't you have anything better to do?? :P
Two running things. Two broken things.

 

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2 hours ago, halboyles said:

Yes it is actually our 1600.  We have used the 441s on several '02s and have had no problems.  I do check the two mounting bolts periodically.

 

One quirk we discovered in these starters has been discussed before:  "On the SR441X one terminal activates the solenoid and the other during starting provides 12V but once you release the the ignition switch the terminal goes to ground".  and the engine stops!!   I seem to remember that we tried inserting a relay between the "R" terminal and the coil to get a straight 12v to the coil during cranking but prevent that terminal from grounding and killing the motor when the ignition switch is released to "Run".  I think we finally just ended up not using the wire to the coil and haven't had any starting issues.

Does your car have the HT Ignition System Relay and an external Series Resistor for the coil and points? My `72 Tii does and the #50 terminal on the starter gets 12V from the ignition switch (which would be the same as the S terminal on the replacement starter) and also supplies 12V to the pull-in coil in the HT Ignition Relay to get a full twelve volts at the coil. Some of the wiring diagrams in the Blue Book don't show an HT Relay or a resistor to the coil. Maybe it was internal, but I can't see it anyplace in those diagrams.

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3 hours ago, torquewrench80 said:

 

@ 2002Scoob - Have you actually bolted the Unipoint starter in or at least checked it to see that if fits properly?

 

 

update- This thing is a BEAST. Holy crap. Spins easily 2-3 times as fast as the factory starter. maybe more. 

 

Brunhilde just got a solid double-shot of espresso to her mornings!!!!

 

 

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Thanks for all the responses, I do see that there are a lot of recommendations regarding which starter to replace it with, I might try and test it first but may end up just replacing it with a replacement for the SR441x since it can be gotten for so cheap.  I'll have to look more into the wiring since there seems to be some particularities surrounding that. 

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2 hours ago, mataku527 said:

I just have a coil with internal resistor.  No external relay as far as I can tell. 

Then all you probably have is the wire from the ignition switch to energize the starter solenoid and the large 12V lead from the battery. (Key word probably) You can find out easy enough. 

Edited by torquewrench80
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looks like I just got the 12V from the battery and ignition switch wire.  I really hope this fixes my start issue... though this would be the 4-5th time I thought I figured it out.

 

ordered the cheapo SR441X suggested above.  The bosch ones are 3x more expensive!

Edited by mataku527
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1 hour ago, mataku527 said:

looks like I just got the 12V from the battery and ignition switch wire.  I really hope this fixes my start issue... though this would be the 4-5th time I thought I figured it out.

 

ordered the cheapo SR441X suggested above.  The bosch ones are 3x more expensive!

 

It's not uncommon to see more than one thing wrong with a car that creates a particular starting problem or running condition, particularly on a car that is approximately 45 years old. 

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As regards the support bracket for the rear of the starter, I didn't use one.  My logic was that BMW does not support the starters in the models it's used in so why should the 2002 require one?  Granted, the M10 probably shakes and bounces more than any other BMW engine, but still...

 

The starter came out of an e32 with the M30 engine.  Love it!

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Here is a photo of the bracket, just for kicks.

071.thumb.JPG.39fef1422529a976335e78621debb537.JPG

Mine was missing the top bolt, that secures it to the intake manifold.

The bracket seems like it does as much to brace the manifold, as it does the starter.

Pretty neat the way they tie things together there.

     DISCLAIMER 

I now disagree with some of the timing advice I have given in the past.  I misinterpreted the distributor curves in the Blue Book. 

I've switched from using ported-vacuum to manifold, with better results. 

I apologize for spreading misinformation.  

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I was unclear in my post above.  While I retained the stock bracket to as to support the manifold, it does not attach to the starter motor.  The e32 starter is just a bit shorter and does not reach the bracket.  Starter is therefore unsupported at the rear.  After a year and a few thousand miles, it's all happy and cranking along just fine.

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On 10/19/2017 at 2:47 AM, 2002Scoob said:

If replacing, you want to look for the one of the following-

 

SR440X- 1.4kw cranking power.... here in germany appx 240 euro. 

 

or

 

SR441X- 1.7kw. Appx 200 euro. 

 

I went with the SR441x because it's not only more powerful, but also seemingly cheaper. There's a bunch of threads I found that detail out the wiring pitfalls, two of the connections are flipped from the original, and with the 441 you'll need to get from your factory spade terminal trigger wire to a ring terminal by way of cut and crimp, or an adapter lead. 

 

Cheers,

-J

 

could you clarify on what you mean by an adapter lead? I was going to cut and crimp but would also prefer not to cut original cables.  Do you just mean a short cable with the female adapter on one end and then a ring terminal on the other? What gauge wire are we working with?

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