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123 - Blue Tooth Ignition Wiring with MSD


Captain Manly

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OK, start taking a stab at trying to install this bad boy. Looking at the instructions it seems straight forward.

 

However.......

 

Before I acquired the Uber-Distributor, I had set up a MSD6A, Tii distributor, and RedCoil.

 

So my question is there are three wires (red, black and blue) on this Bluetooth version.  I am assuming I connect the red and black as before to my existing set up with the MSD (as per the instructions), but what about the blue?

 

Thank you for your patience.

 

Justin 

 

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6 hours ago, Captain Manly said:

Or to the red connection that is stated on the MSD instructions?

 

 

Which instructions? MSD always uses the white wire for the points sensing installation. They generally have two red wires. A heavy gauge one that goes to the battery and a lighter one that turns the unit on  and off which is connected to the green wire which is switched 12v from the ignition key. 

 

https://www.msdperformance.com/support/

 

 

rtheriaque wrote:

Carbs: They're necessary and barely controlled fuel leaks that sometimes match the air passing through them.

My build blog:http://www.bmw2002faq.com/blog/163-simeons-blog/

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I have been debating the 123 setup for a couple of years now (it looks like a great setup), but I am skeptical about its longevity when coupled with high-energy CD ignition systems like the MSD (I have a 6AL2 system installed in my 2002tii). 123 says 1.5 ohms of primary resistance is needed, and the MSD Blaster coils have 0.7-0.8 ohms (my car has an old Blaster 2 coil that had worked well with Pertronix for a long time for myself and the previous owner).

 

I contacted the US distributor of 123ignition systems (Ed) about this, and he said that he has had two different units in for repair that had been used with MSD ignitions. In both cases, the black wire had overheated and de-soldered from the circuit board.

 

Nonetheless, I might give it a try at some point to see how much of a difference it makes at higher RPM (my distributor isn't completely wasted, but has some vertical shaft play and the timing certainly scatters a bit at higher RPM . . . . I'll probably go with the Bosch red coil to be safe!

Chris A
---'73 2002tii Chamonix w/ flares, sunroof, 15x7s, LSD, Bilstein Sports w/ H&R springs, upgraded sway bars, E21 Recaros
---'86 Porsche 944 Turbo grey street/track car

---'81 Alfa Romeo GTV6 rescued from junkyard, Lemons Rally/"GT" car

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9 minutes ago, cda951 said:

my distributor ... has some vertical shaft play

that is super cheap'n'easy to fix.  fun too.

     DISCLAIMER -- I now disagree with much of the timing advice I have given in the past.  I misinterpreted the distributor curves in the Blue Book as timing maps for our engines.  I've also switched from using ported-vacuum to manifold, with better results.  I apologize for spreading misinformation. 

(3-28-2024)  

 

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31 minutes ago, '76mintgrun'02 said:

that is super cheap'n'easy to fix.  fun too.

 

Yeah, I have done this before and I even have an old Sun distributor machine at my shop . . . . but I simply lack the time and capacity to mess around with such things these days. The poor 2002 has been on the back burner of late. Too many old cars with too many needs!

Chris A
---'73 2002tii Chamonix w/ flares, sunroof, 15x7s, LSD, Bilstein Sports w/ H&R springs, upgraded sway bars, E21 Recaros
---'86 Porsche 944 Turbo grey street/track car

---'81 Alfa Romeo GTV6 rescued from junkyard, Lemons Rally/"GT" car

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15 minutes ago, cda951 said:

I have been debating the 123 setup for a couple of years now (it looks like a great setup), but I am skeptical about its longevity when coupled with high-energy CD ignition systems like the MSD (I have a 6AL2 system installed in my 2002tii). 123 says 1.5 ohms of primary resistance is needed, and the MSD Blaster coils have 0.7-0.8 ohms (my car has an old Blaster 2 coil that had worked well with Pertronix for a long time for myself and the previous owner).

 

I contacted the US distributor of 123ignition systems (Ed) about this, and he said that he has had two different units in for repair that had been used with MSD ignitions. In both cases, the black wire had overheated and de-soldered from the circuit board.

 

Nonetheless, I might give it a try at some point to see how much of a difference it makes at higher RPM (my distributor isn't completely wasted, but has some vertical shaft play and the timing certainly scatters a bit at higher RPM . . . . I'll probably go with the Bosch red coil to be safe!

 

When you use a capacitive discharge ignition whatever is used for switching, points, Pertronix or 123 are not directly connected to the coil. The capacitor discharges rapidly and this is stepped up by the coil acting like a transformer. The 'switch' (whatever it is) actually should have an easier time than the stock Kettering induction ignition as this wouldn't see the flyback voltage due to the collapse of the inductive field in the coil.

 

That's not to say that issues haven't been seen with the 123 but I can't see how it would be the low voltage switching circuit on the MSD causing it. 

rtheriaque wrote:

Carbs: They're necessary and barely controlled fuel leaks that sometimes match the air passing through them.

My build blog:http://www.bmw2002faq.com/blog/163-simeons-blog/

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59 minutes ago, Simeon said:

 

When you use a capacitive discharge ignition whatever is used for switching, points, Pertronix or 123 are not directly connected to the coil. The capacitor discharges rapidly and this is stepped up by the coil acting like a transformer. The 'switch' (whatever it is) actually should have an easier time than the stock Kettering induction ignition as this wouldn't see the flyback voltage due to the collapse of the inductive field in the coil.

 

That's not to say that issues haven't been seen with the 123 but I can't see how it would be the low voltage switching circuit on the MSD causing it. 

 

Yes, I do realize that the circuits are separated. I have measured the current of the switching circuit of the MSD 6AL2 at 0.8 amps (by using my low-current inductive ammeter), which should be safe, but the 123 US rep seemed leery about the prospect of running the 123 with MSD, so I am forwarding this here as a FYI. Perhaps the units that he repaired were wired incorrectly . . . .

 

Regardless, I am willing to try this out on my tii due to the flexibility of tuning and the bolt-in nature of 123 the system and my desire to maintain the Kugelfischer injection system. Of course full standalone EFI systems offer a wide range of ignition timing control, but the reasonably-priced ignition-only modules that I have seen are not as sophisticated as the 123!

Chris A
---'73 2002tii Chamonix w/ flares, sunroof, 15x7s, LSD, Bilstein Sports w/ H&R springs, upgraded sway bars, E21 Recaros
---'86 Porsche 944 Turbo grey street/track car

---'81 Alfa Romeo GTV6 rescued from junkyard, Lemons Rally/"GT" car

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