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Help identify which mechanical fuel pump I have


lazerfred

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Hi There --

 

My fuel pump has given up the ghost and I need to replace it and I'm not sure which one I have on there. Looking at this page 

It appears to be an aftermarket copy of the first generation version, with the original part number 13 31 1 252 506 because it has a lever action inside rather than the spring version. But it doesn't quite look like the one in the pic. 

 

The one I have is made by Pierburg and has  "BMW 7" and "3 076" stamped on it.

 

It's definitely got the 8mm intake 6mm outflow set up.

 

I hopefully don't have to monkey around with getting a new pushrod or anything; I just want to a replacement that I can quickly swap back in... do people have model numbers and suggested places to buy a replacement?

 

Thanks!!!

 

IMG_0841.JPG

IMG_0842.JPG

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There was just a post yesterday, in which a member was looking for a new long neck style pump (so it does not interfere with the coolant hose that runs under it).  He called Blunttech and they have one coming in the mail, in spite of rumors that they are currently NLA.  That is where I would start.

 

As for the length of push rod, perhaps you could measure yours and compare it to info in the archives.  Sorry, I don't have much insight.  

 

I do have a short style pump that I bought because I thought it looked cool and it worked fine for several years, in spite of pressing on that hose.  I have since reinstalled the long neck pump.  I could sell/mail you the short one, if you want it.  Coming from Kingston, it'd probably take two days at most.  Just a thought.  

     DISCLAIMER 

I now disagree with some of the timing advice I have given in the past.  I misinterpreted the distributor curves in the Blue Book. 

I've switched from using ported-vacuum to manifold, with better results. 

I apologize for spreading misinformation.  

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That's the 90 degree Pierburg that some folks use with side drafts, as it clears the front carburetor.  Those can be rebuilt with a kit found on air cooled VW sites. I recently rebuilt one for my 2000CS and found that the return spring supplied in the kit was far too strong, so I recommend only replacing the gaskets, diaphragm, and such out of the kit.  (the return spring is the one that acts on the pushrod lever)

 

I've run a similar Pierburg on my '71 for many years with no troubles at all.  

 

Ed

 

Here's one:

https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111198555

 

There are rebuild videos on youtube...it's extremely simple.

 

Good luck,

 

Ed

Edited by zinz
  • Like 1

'69 Granada... long, long ago  

'71 Manila..such a great car

'67 Granada 2000CS...way cool

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14 minutes ago, zinz said:

 

 

Here's one:

https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111198555

 

There are rebuild videos on youtube...it's extremely simple.

 

 

Thanks! That kit appears to have the spring set up and mine is the "lever" set up (on the mechanical pump page you can see the two side by side). So basically I'd be putting the workings of a spring type one into the shell of a lever type? And it also looks like the spring versions stick out a good quarter inch or more... but the level version is essentially internal, meaning it probably uses a longer push rod. So I'd need to get a shorter one?

 

and can I just pull out the pushrod or is there some trick?

 

thanks for the help!

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The link I embedded is for rebuilding the "lever style" pump in your picture.  You will drive out the hinge pin (held in place by two circlips)  That pin holds the lever and the return spring is behind it.  The diaphragm has it's own coil spring as well. That diaphragm is under the round section of the pump, held in place by 6 screws. 

 

You should not need a new pushrod.

 

Here's a step by step with pics.

https://hotvws.com/content.php?contentID=45

 

 

Ed 

Edited by zinz

'69 Granada... long, long ago  

'71 Manila..such a great car

'67 Granada 2000CS...way cool

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Search eBay for this style, they are under $60.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E3-3-0S-3-0CS-2500-Bavaria-8-mm-Inlet-Outlet-Fitting-Fuel-Pump-PIERBURG-/361995242416?epid=227439662&hash=item5448990bb0:g:sLEAAOSwKytZLrsL&vxp=mtr

 

you need the 8mm inlet, 6mm outlet, this one is 8/8

Edited by HBChris

HBChris

`73 3.0CS Chamonix, `69 2000 NK Atlantik

`70 2800 Polaris, `79 528i Chamonix

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On 8/26/2017 at 2:40 PM, zinz said:

The link I embedded is for rebuilding the "lever style" pump in your picture.  You will drive out the hinge pin (held in place by two circlips)  That pin holds the lever and the return spring is behind it.  The diaphragm has it's own coil spring as well. That diaphragm is under the round section of the pump, held in place by 6 screws. 

 

You should not need a new pushrod.

 

Here's a step by step with pics.

https://hotvws.com/content.php?contentID=45

 

 

Ed 

aw, I definitely did not look close enough... thank you so much, this absolutely seems like a great solution that satisfies both my tinkering needs and my cheap-ass don't-want-to-spend-too-much-money needs

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On 8/26/2017 at 2:09 PM, '76mintgrun'02 said:

There was just a post yesterday, in which a member was looking for a new long neck style pump (so it does not interfere with the coolant hose that runs under it).  He called Blunttech and they have one coming in the mail, in spite of rumors that they are currently NLA.  That is where I would start.

 

As for the length of push rod, perhaps you could measure yours and compare it to info in the archives.  Sorry, I don't have much insight.  

 

I do have a short style pump that I bought because I thought it looked cool and it worked fine for several years, in spite of pressing on that hose.  I have since reinstalled the long neck pump.  I could sell/mail you the short one, if you want it.  Coming from Kingston, it'd probably take two days at most.  Just a thought.  

 

Aw man I didn't even notice your response before I saw the one below it... ugh! sorry... So I've had quite the journey the last few days about this and I'm explaining it in an a message below.

Edited by lazerfred
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On 8/26/2017 at 2:40 PM, zinz said:

The link I embedded is for rebuilding the "lever style" pump in your picture.  You will drive out the hinge pin (held in place by two circlips)  That pin holds the lever and the return spring is behind it.  The diaphragm has it's own coil spring as well. That diaphragm is under the round section of the pump, held in place by 6 screws. 

 

You should not need a new pushrod.

 

Here's a step by step with pics.

https://hotvws.com/content.php?contentID=45

 

 

Ed 

 

 

Hey There --

 

So I bought the rebuild kit; and after tearing apart the fuel pump to rebuild it; I realized that my pump differs in a key way from the what that kit was for. Basically there are two diaphragms in the pump; a large on in the main part of the unit, and a smaller one in the top part. The step by step guide points out that the top part has four screws to remove to remove the head of the top part; or if its an "older variety" there is a single bolt in the center.

 

Mine had neither; it's not actually repairable up there. ugh.

 

So I decided to replace what I could and put it back together. Then I put it back on my car and ... no gas. At that point I decided, screw it, I'll just go down to my local bowWowVW and ask them if they can order me a new one.

 

The pierburg one they ordered is different from the one I have, but it's also referenced here on this site. Here's a post with a pic of it: https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/135676-mechanical-fuel-pump-question/?do=findComment&comment=27390

 

So I get home to install this pump, and it simple doesn't fit on my engine. The water pump outlet and hose completely blocks it; it couldn't be "forced" on; it's metal touching metal (see attached pic).

 

 

 

So here's where I'm at:

 

I have a brand new pump that definitely won't fit because it is bumping into the water hose and outlet.

 

I have a push rod cut down to 88mm

 

I have a possibly now working old fuel pump... with the wrong push rod size.

 

Possible solutions:

 

-- Somehow make the new one I bought fit: Is there something I'm missing about this new pump that should let it fit? Here's another post by someone who installed the same one, and talked about how tough it was, but seemed to make it fit regardless:

https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/141838-mechanical-fuel-pump-question/?do=findComment&comment=932157 It almost looks like I could take a saw and cut off a little bit of the outlet on the water piping, but if I did that I still don't think I could squeeze a water hose under the fuel pump. Is there like a 90 degree thing that I could screw into that water pump outlet instead so it goes down and away from the fuel pump?

 

-- return the new pump and order an 107mm push rod to replace the one I had cut down. Try the old fuel pump again

 

-- Order another Pierburg pump, like this one that was suggested, which bends up exactly like mine: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E3-3-0S-3-0CS-2500-Bavaria-8-mm-Inlet-Outlet-Fitting-Fuel-Pump-PIERBURG-/361995242416?epid=227439662&hash=item5448990bb0:g:sLEAAOSwKytZLrsL&vxp=mtr and also get a 107mm push rod.

 

So if folks have ideas before I start jumping in to buy or replace more stuff I'd appreciate any thoughts!

 

IMG_0879.JPG

Edited by lazerfred
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Early water dividers have a cast outlet not the removable one shown which allows for the long neck pump but are hard to find.  You can't use the short neck with either.

Fuel Pumps.doc

CIMG3669.JPG

CIMG3730.JPG

 

The eBay pump is M30 with 8mm inlet and outlet, you need 8mm inlet, 6mm outlet.

Edited by HBChris

HBChris

`73 3.0CS Chamonix, `69 2000 NK Atlantik

`70 2800 Polaris, `79 528i Chamonix

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4 hours ago, HBChris said:

Early water dividers have a cast outlet not the removable one shown which allows for the long neck pump but are hard to find.  You can't use the short neck with either.

Fuel Pumps.doc

CIMG3730.JPG

 

The eBay pump is M30 with 8mm inlet and outlet, you need 8mm inlet, 6mm outlet.

 

My god that is one clean engine! Looking at yours, I notice your fuel filter is before the fuel pump, not after. I've always had mine after because... well, that's the way it was when I bought it. Is it supposed to be before? Also, I'm assuming that fuel pump you have used the 88mm pushrod, right?

 

I'm definitely gonna ask for the long next version from blunt tech. Will it make a difference that my car has an aftermarket weber 32/36 two barrel carb?

 

My engine definitely has a removable water divider... but dang... so what we're saying here is that I can no longer get a new replacement for my 13 31 1 252 506 (the early one listed in your doc), and will have to get a different style one, and it might necessitate the removal of the water divider first?

 

Dang; the old one was a 60 second removal...

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That pic is a long neck and won't work with your divider.  Search for the eBay style, lots of room and period correct.

 

This style, long and short, has a big spring and requires the shorter rod.  Early pumps have a lever and use the long rod, it's in the Word doc I attached.

Edited by HBChris

HBChris

`73 3.0CS Chamonix, `69 2000 NK Atlantik

`70 2800 Polaris, `79 528i Chamonix

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21 minutes ago, HBChris said:

That pic is a long neck and won't work with your divider.  Search for the eBay style, lots of room and period correct.

 

 

Chris, you appear to know specifically what he is looking for.

Why not post a link to that specific pump for sale on eBay, to avoid possible mistakes?

 

I am eager to see the pump you are referring to as well.

Thanks,

Tom

     DISCLAIMER 

I now disagree with some of the timing advice I have given in the past.  I misinterpreted the distributor curves in the Blue Book. 

I've switched from using ported-vacuum to manifold, with better results. 

I apologize for spreading misinformation.  

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