playing witb my Hunter K111

['76mintgrün'02]

Mine pulls a little to the right as well.  I replaced all the rubber bits up front, as well as tie rods, center link, control arms, ball joints... basically everything except the drag link bushings.  I have them and will install them when I have the manifold off.  I am curious whether you changed those bushings.  It would be funny if they wore in a way that made it pull right.

 

I am not taking mine too seriously, until I freshen up the rear subframe.  Bushings in hand... just slow getting around to it.

 

Are you certain that you do not have a dragging caliper?  I had that problem as well.  Both of them, actually.

 

I did my own toe in settings on my old VWs and one time I ran a tight little string down the center line under the car, so I could measure to each side off of that.  It seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

Pretty cool tool you have there!

Around here, it is a couple of sticks of wood and a tape measure : )

[PatAllen]

all @#$$ bushings are totaty new all around. all of them.

the center link is new (2009) when i restored the car. it always behaved this way.

 

the track rods...you mean the round pieces that connect the suspension arm to the subframe up front ?

there may be one not even with the lot, which would be easely corrected by insterting shims at their ends to compensate imho.

 

i messed up with calipers as well, no change.

the caster seems to be the real problem, per the machine says, which indeed could be caused by thoses rods. to be investigated soon....

['76mintgrün'02]

track rods?  

I replaced tie rods...

I think you may be referring to the radius rods. (?)

Those fat rubber bushings had been replaced recently in my car, from the looks of 'em; so I did not do those either.

 

It would be fun to run a tight piece of fishing line under the center of my car and perhaps one perpendicular to it, to measure off of.

I would need someone on the other end of a tape though.

I wonder how straight those strings would say my car isn't.

[avoirdupois]

15 hours ago, PatAllen said:

the main problem with this car is its return to center that never worked since day 1, no matter what i did. it always pulls to the right. i made few posts on that many years ago iirw

 

Pat,

As noted by anonymous, the specs are in the manual, see specifications section of chapter 32.  This includes illustrations for optical measurements. (Note, many of the fault suggestions place (potential cause) as "distorted floor panels" which clearly encompasses auto accidents, marine damage during shipping and/or poor assembly when things left the factory.  Not saying this is your problem, only the possibility since you describe an issues that has persisted for years. )

 

I know you are more than capable of resolving this issue, even if it is as simple as irregular tread. I recall chasing a similar symptom after replacing most suspension parts and after double checking chassis specifications and finding them within normal factory recommendations.  My biggest concern was what I thought was evidence of an accident repair, but that turned out not to be an issue.

 

Among other things, I discovered that a thicker-than-stock front sway bar and/or its mountings had an effect on a self-centering steering wheel.  Disconnecting the bar's end links to the control arms made a substantial difference.  It should not have made such a difference, but it did. The bar's two mounts  were reinstalled with different bushes that had been kerf-cut to allow more free movement.  The links were also loosened.  Another thing that might affect the auto-centering of the steering wheel might be the strut mounts.  It is often difficult to determine how tight is too tight, since they are generally connected to other steering components when they are tested for free movement.  Too tight may result in unwanted binding.  Too loose may result in unwanted clunking and a little less stability.  I hasten to add that tires, even when they look perfect, can contribute to a car that seems to wander or has a pull.  However, unless tires are severely worn and under inflated, I doubt there is any connection with the steering wheel returning to center.

 

I know you are aware of these things, but sometimes they are easy to overlook.

[burndog]

Steering box condition / tolerances?

[rover1]

you got an alignment rack in your garage? thats hardcore

[FunkyLaneO]

13 hours ago, rover1 said:

you got an alignment rack in your garage? thats hardcore

Apparently you aren't familiar with PatAllen, I am surprised it isn't a more elaborate system with multiple add-on's designed and built in his secret lab. Haha. Pat is next-level hardcore.

[codigoRojo]

You're probably right that caster is causing your pull. Did you try swapping your L and R tires? That's an easy, free test to see if your tires are involved. 

['76mintgrün'02]

they say not to swap radial tires side to side, but front to rear is allowed.

whether the worry is warranted, I do not know.

I simply follow their advice, just in case.

[PatAllen]

i do indeed got an alignment machine in my garage. its a new add-on, i got the machine for cheap, it was dead, bad floppys and whats not. made it evolve and changed the CRT to a tiny lcd screen and reduced the whole unit to a miserable semi-alike computer size machine, which hunter did later on with theirs more recent machines. fixed a buch of tiny details and its up and running. its a Hunter K111.

it works well and is dead acurate. its the wireless model, very cool.

 

tonight i remembered the mention about adding some weights in some cars i did aligment in the past, especialy the BMW (e36, e46, e60 that i did at least)

 

so i simply sat in the car and bom ! front and rear camber became equal, only rear toe is a bit off for now.

 

i tweaked a bit the front toe to compensate the rear and the cars runs like a fu*ing champ now. goes straigth ahead and the feeling of the steering is very nice now, much less effort when it is in the center position. maybe a bit sensisitve and free but i prefer it this way rather than pulling my hands off to the right all the time.

 

i also found out that i have a very slight stick caliper on the right under some circumstances. barely noticeable. a new set of caliper are on their way.

 

to be continued....

[PatAllen]

On 24/05/2017 at 4:08 PM, codigoRojo said:

You're probably right that caster is causing your pull. Did you try swapping your L and R tires? That's an easy, free test to see if your tires are involved. 

maybe i will give a try but i got the exact same pull issue with another set of wheel/tires.

[PatAllen]

On 22/05/2017 at 10:39 PM, '76mintgrun'02 said:

track rods?  

I replaced tie rods...

I think you may be referring to the radius rods. (?)

Those fat rubber bushings had been replaced recently in my car, from the looks of 'em; so I did not do those either.

 

It would be fun to run a tight piece of fishing line under the center of my car and perhaps one perpendicular to it, to measure off of.

I would need someone on the other end of a tape though.

I wonder how straight those strings would say my car isn't.

i am wondering about the shell itself and the tolerances. i dont know how they did put the body pieces together, maybe they had a jig and spot welded them together, 45 years ago they did got robots like today. so i wouldnt be surprised to have an "uneven" shell.

[JohnH]

How level is your floor/stands? Are your tire pressures equal side to side? In your pictures the rear thrust angle keeps changing, so it would seem the car/wheels/tires are not level. Can you measure corner weights (to explain camber/toe changes at the rear)?

[torquewrench80]

@ Pat Allen, hope the files I attached help. Plus, I can tell you from personal experience if the steering box is not centered perfectly you will end up with a drift to one side or the other when you let go of the wheel. I was told many years ago, by someone who was considerably more experienced than me that it had to do with the design of the steering box. My qualifications: 45 years as an automobile mechanic, 27 of those self employed. Began working on BMWs exclusively in 1972 until 1986. I'm certain I had to have learned at least a couple of things over the course of those years. I kind of miss the early 70s working on 2002s everyday with the occasional Bavaria and less frequent CS thrown in. Mmmm.....love those CSs.

2017-05-26-0001.pdf

2017-05-26-0002.pdf

2017-05-26-0004.pdf

2017-05-26-0005.pdf

['76mintgrün'02]

23 minutes ago, torquewrench80 said:

if the steering box is not centered perfectly you will end up with a drift to one side or the other when you let go of the wheel

thank you for this.  I noticed just yesterday that my wheel is turned ever so slightly to the right, while going straight.  I will give the tie rods a twist and see if it helps.