Jump to content
  • When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

2002 Ti Vintage Trip- abort or take another vehicle?


Recommended Posts

I started preparing for the Vintage about three weeks ago. I changed the fluids in the 2002 TI, put a new fantastic gel cell battery in, changed filters, and did a tuneup. I went a little further, and put campagnolo wheels on it, and a spare TISA steering wheel. I started driving it to work every day to make sure that it was in good shape for such a long trip. I even took the bottom of the dashboard apart  to fix the turn signals, which developed a grounding problem.

One day I noticed that it was pulling to one side. I got out of the car and put my hand on the passenger side front wheel. It was hot. The slope got slippery very quickly. I replaced both calipers, all new front brake pads, all new hoses, and because the steel lines were ancient in the front of the car and broke while removing the calipers, all except one,they've all been replaced as well. I had trouble getting the air bubbles out of it and the only thing left to replace was the master cylinder. Steve Peterson (Blunttech) blessedly overnighted many of the parts. I replaced the master cylinder just now,and I have been pumping fluid through it with a mighty vac. Still not enough pedal to drive, and I am running out of evenings after work to get the car ready. I would take the Tisa, but it has developed a misfire in the 5500 RPM range, which has me very nervous as it has a perTronics and MSD ignition system now. I had hoped to install the 123 distributor and sort out the electrics, but the massive brake rebuilding project has sucked up more time than I expected.

If I cannot get the brakes sorted out, I am considering going and driving a P car, but  am concerned that the tribal purists may provide an outcry, not realizing how hard I have tried to prepared  a old 2002 Ti to drive. Should I cancel the trip, or risk being a social outcast.

Best regards, Peter

IMG_4175.JPG

IMG_4173.JPG

IMG_4166.JPG

IMG_4169.JPG

IMG_4164.JPG

IMG_4163.JPG

IMG_4161.JPG

The First thing is to have an untroubled mind. The Second thing is to know your purpose. Illigitimati Non Carborundum

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stomp on the brake pedal.  Hard.  Like you're going to hit something.   Like, 10 times.

 

Take a small hammer and tap on the calipers.  Not hard enough to dent them,

but make some noise.

 

Then get 2 2' lengths of tubing- 3/16" diameter or so- and drill holes in 2 plastic drink bottles.

Small enough so that the tubing binds in the holes, and stuff the tubing in.

Drill tiny vent holes, too.

 

Put the tubing on 2 bleeders on opposite circuits, open them, and putter for a few minutes.  You should get 1/2" or more of fluid

in the bottom of the bottles.  Repeat on the other side.  Then get the last 2 that you missed.

 

Then do the rears.  And then put the drums on, and adjust the shoes out so that they're just dragging.

 

And then stomp on the brake pedal.  Hard.  Like you're going to hit something.  Again.

 

hope this helps,

 

t

 

"I learn best through painful, expensive experience, so I feel like I've gotten my money's worth." MattL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, TobyB said:

Stomp on the brake pedal.  Hard.  Like you're going to hit something.   Like, 10 times.

 

Take a small hammer and tap on the calipers.  Not hard enough to dent them,

but make some noise.

 

Then get 2 2' lengths of tubing- 3/16" diameter or so- and drill holes in 2 plastic drink bottles.

Small enough so that the tubing binds in the holes, and stuff the tubing in.

Drill tiny vent holes, too.

 

Put the tubing on 2 bleeders on opposite circuits, open them, and putter for a few minutes.  You should get 1/2" or more of fluid

in the bottom of the bottles.  Repeat on the other side.  Then get the last 2 that you missed.

 

Then do the rears.  And then put the drums on, and adjust the shoes out so that they're just dragging.

 

And then stomp on the brake pedal.  Hard.  Like you're going to hit something.  Again.

 

hope this helps,

 

t

 

Don't forget to yell while stomping.

1973 tii, agave, since 1992

1973 tii block 2763759

1967 Mustang GT fastback, since 1986

1999 Toyota 4Runner, 5 speed, ELocker, Supercharged

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you're driving down the east coast en route to the Vintage, my home is just east of DC. I have a large 2-car garage and every tool necessary to solve any problem you could encounter short of converting your ti motor into a tii. I also have a shit ton of parts and beer. And several spare bedrooms. 

williamggruff

'76 2002 "Verona" / '12 Fiat 500 Sport "Latte" / '21 Toyota 4Runner TRD Off Road Prem “The Truck”

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Peter,

 

I am hardly the person to provide a followup comment to a pro like Toby but I had a similar problem getting my 1600 ready for the Mid-America '02 Fest last month.  I had replaced everything except the MC (lines, calipers, cylinders, pads, shoes,...) and had almost zero brake pedal.  I ended up bleeding the MC by loosening each of the brake lines connected to the MC one at a time to let copious amounts of brake fluid bleed out.  It was messy, I used a lot of towels and rinsed with buckets of water.  But, it worked, and I finally had stopping power.

 

I know the MC should be self bleeding, but it didn't work in my case when I completely replaced almost everything in the system like you did.

BMWCCA  Member #14493

www.2002sonly.com

1086238739_Logoforsignature.png.eb1354ab9afa7c378cd15f33e4c7fbbe.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mity-Vac for bleeding is a no-no in my experience. To much air is drawn back through the threads. You really can't beat a pressure bleeder 'from up top'. 

 

As Toby points out, trapped air is a bitch. Particularly if you have lots of new parts in the system as the surface tension on the new, virgin parts are different to those previously soaked with fluid. Fluid can run straight past bubbles without moving them. Big flow back and forth (stamping on the pedal) plus tapping to release small bubbles helps.

 

Pressure bleeder on, bleeder screws open and then apply pedal pressure which should sink is another approach to move the fluid. 

 

Keep trying!

rtheriaque wrote:

Carbs: They're necessary and barely controlled fuel leaks that sometimes match the air passing through them.

My build blog:http://www.bmw2002faq.com/blog/163-simeons-blog/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice car!

 

Bottom line: don't drive it there if not road worthy. Only YOU will know if it is or not.

75 2002 (black) 1990 - 1993

73 2002 tii (malaga) 1994 - 2017

74 2002 tii (verona) 2023 - probably forever

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Start with reverse bleeding the system first the old way (two persons)

Start at front left/driver side (Upper, inner & outer), then do same thing on front passenger side. By this time you should see majority of bubbles exited the system.

After initial bledding as described above proceed to normal bleeding starting RR, RL, etc.

I had trouble bleeding the brakes when overhauled beake system. Rear right wheel cylinder would not bleed at all, so I decieded start with front calipers and then the normal way brake bleeding. That solved it for me.

Hope this will work and can see you at Vintage

 

76 2002 Sienabraun

2015 BMW F10

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Peter, I don't care what you drive just as long as you are at The Vintage!

Andrew Wilson
Vern- 1973 2002tii, https://www.bmw2002faq.com/blogs/blog/304-andrew-wilsons-vern-restoration/ 
Veronika- 1968 1600 Cabriolet, Athena- 1973 3.0 CSi,  Rodney- 1988 M5, The M3- 1997 M3,

The Unicorn- 2007 X3, Julia- 2007 Z4 Coupe, Ophelia- 2014 X3, Herman- 1914 KisselKar 4-40

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Simeon said:

Mity-Vac for bleeding is a no-no in my experience. To much air is drawn back through the threads. You really can't beat a pressure bleeder 'from up top'. 

 

As Toby points out, trapped air is a bitch. Particularly if you have lots of new parts in the system as the surface tension on the new, virgin parts are different to those previously soaked with fluid. Fluid can run straight past bubbles without moving them. Big flow back and forth (stamping on the pedal) plus tapping to release small bubbles helps.

 

Pressure bleeder on, bleeder screws open and then apply pedal pressure which should sink is another approach to move the fluid. 

 

Keep trying!

Bingo.  Mityvacs are useless. You will never get the air out.   Get a pressure bleeder for this.   And do the stomp thing while the system is under pressure.

2xM3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many thanks my brothers,

 

I really appreciate the perspective, I needed some good deep extra intellectual help , and a little emotional support on this. I will follow Toby's recommendations, as well as see if I can get a pressure bleeder  top down in the meantime. I have one night and half a day to get things together.  I had wondered if the mighty vac was sucking bubbles in around the bleeders and what not. Sometimes the enemy of good is better, and it is great to have support, intellectual, logical and emotional. I once nearly broke up with a Georgia peach because she was becoming extremely tired of "pumping the pedal." I was a dolt that time and  - had reversed the right and left front calipers on a 911. I will attack the Ti again tonight, and hope to see you all Friday.

 

Again, many thanks,

 

best regards Peter

 

P.S. Grice-I am hoping that you will be at the vintage, as your company is always so excellent.

The First thing is to have an untroubled mind. The Second thing is to know your purpose. Illigitimati Non Carborundum

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Peter,

 

Sadly, I won't be attending the Vintage this year. I've had a few too many vacation outings already this year, including 23 days of big mountain skiing since January 1st, eleven days in Hawaii in April, and a hiking trip to Big Bend National Park from which I'm currently returning home, and as I plan to be rock climbing in Kentucky next weekend, and hiking in Puerto Rico the following week, I need to spend some time this weekend around home. But my offer stands, and I'd welcome your company and the opportunity to get my knuckles greasy on your ti ;-)

 

Grice

williamggruff

'76 2002 "Verona" / '12 Fiat 500 Sport "Latte" / '21 Toyota 4Runner TRD Off Road Prem “The Truck”

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ya.....loosen up the connections to the MC as said above. I had this same aggravating trouble of a super spongy brake pedal, and doing that ghetto style MC bleed did the trick.

 

Mity Vacs do work...but one has to use a thread sealant on the bleed nipples...sometime even multiple applications. =(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • BMW Neue Klasse - a birth of a Sports Sedan

    BMW Neue Klasse - a birth of a Sports Sedan

    Unveiling of the Neue Klasse Unveiled in 1961, BMW 1500 sedan was a revolutionary concept at the outset of the '60s. No tail fins or chrome fountains. Instead, what you got was understated and elegant, in a modern sense, exciting to drive as nearly any sports car, and yet still comfortable for four.   The elegant little sedan was an instant sensation. In the 1500, BMW not only found the long-term solution to its dire business straits but, more importantly, created an entirely new
    History of the BMW 2002 and the 02 Series

    History of the BMW 2002 and the 02 Series

    In 1966, BMW was practically unknown in the US unless you were a touring motorcycle enthusiast or had seen an Isetta given away on a quiz show.  BMW’s sales in the US that year were just 1253 cars.  Then BMW 1600-2 came to America’s shores, tripling US sales to 4564 the following year, boosted by favorable articles in the Buff Books. Car and Driver called it “the best $2500 sedan anywhere.”  Road & Track’s road test was equally enthusiastic.  Then, BMW took a cue from American manufacturers,
    The BMW 2002 Production Run

    The BMW 2002 Production Run

    BMW 02 series are like the original Volkswagen Beetles in one way (besides both being German classic cars)—throughout their long production, they all essentially look alike—at least to the uninitiated:  small, boxy, rear-wheel drive, two-door sedan.  Aficionados know better.   Not only were there three other body styles—none, unfortunately, exported to the US—but there were some significant visual and mechanical changes over their eleven-year production run.   I’ve extracted t
  • Upcoming Events

  • Supporting Vendors

×
×
  • Create New...