Factory Leather Upholstery

[Conserv]

A Golf 1973 tii, currently listed on eBay, VIN 2764457 (July 1973), provides the first example I have seen of a round taillight '02 with unambiguous documentation of the factory leather upholstery option (on the window sticker, "LEATHER UPHOLSTERY                     611.00").  The car for sale is not mine, I have no affiliation to it, and my intention is not to promote this sale but, rather, to initiate a thread on the subject of factory leather '02 interiors.

 

As it were, the eBay car's original leather interior was apparently replaced at some point -- I'd bet that ca. 1973 BMW Skai (the German vinyl used) holds up better than leather!  But the window sticker remains.  And...this was even a Hoffman Motors Corp import.  I would hope that the factory documentation eventually spurs an owner of this car to restore it with leather, in the original style -- whatever the original style of factory leather upholstery might have been in a 1973 model!

 

The first photo below shows the window sticker:  $611 for the leather interior option.   This is more than 10% of a 1973 tii's base price, and thus a "substantial" option, on par with dealer-installed Behr A/C.

 

But what did this upholstery look like?  Did the leather seats, ca. 1973, have the same smooth/perforated configuration as the vinyl seats?  Or did the leather seats look like the authentically-vintage seats shown in the second through fourth photographs (owned by a former forum member)?  The twelve pleats, "eared" headrests, and black metal recliners announce these are likely late 1973 seats.  Notice that these seats do not have perforated leather on the pleated seating areas, as we expect to see on the all-vinyl seats, but....(1.) the upholstery perfectly respects the all-vinyl seats in terms of the number and configuration of pleats, (2.) that worn leather certainly looks like the wonderfully-thick German leather found on '60's and '70's German cars, (3.) the leather is navy blue, one of the few factory interior colors for round taillight '02's -- one might, for example, more easily dismiss dark green leather as being post-factory, and (4.) the craftsmanship of these seats is obvious, just as we might expect from an early '70's BMW factory interior.

 

So I'll leave this here.  I would really like to know what a ca. 1973 factory leather interior looked like. Are these navy blue seats original? Were the door cards also executed in leather?  Who has what they believe to be an original leather '02 interior?  I've seen a few square taillight examples but I can't say I've yet seen round taillight examples -- which might be why the 1973 tii's window sticker blew me away!

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Conserv

[Mike Self]

Other than the fabled "last 200" '76s that were (allegedly) equipped with red leather interiors, this is the first 2002 I've ever seen--Euro or US--with documented real leather seats.  And that it's a US spec car makes it more unusual.  None of the sales brochures list leather upholstery as an option, and this was long before BMW's Individuel program.  The pleats are a bit narrower than those done in vinyl, but otherwise look very similar to the standard vinyl seats.

 

It's unlikely that this was built for the auto show circuit because by its VIN, this is one of the last 50 roundie (US spec) tii's built.  Production ended at 2764521.  Conversely it may have been some kind of special promotion for the last few models of that series, kinda like the Polaris/red leather '76s.  

 

While the sticker shows it going to a dealer in Houston, it may have been an overseas delivery car ordered through the Hoffman organization vs directly from the factory by military or diplomatic personnel stationed overseas (thus the Hoffman sticker).  IIRC Hoffman had a make-ready facility in Houston to receive incoming vehicles.   I'm sure an e-mail to BMW Classic with the VIN would help clear it up.  

 

If anyone does that, please post your answer so we'll all know the story...

 

cheers

mike

[otisdog]

Somebody posted pictures of a red leather interior car here awhile ago...thinking they were all painted black?

[02Anders]

I know of at least two RRL 02's living in Germany that have what is claimed - and what equally to my eye appears to be - factory leather seats.  When I say "to my eye appears to be", like you Steve, I base this on things such as the craftsmanship, the quality and look of the leather, and not least the appropriately aged look that the said leather seats have today.  If memory serves me right, I believe one of these 02's is a '72 while the other is a '73.
Further to that, I also recall a interesting chat I had with my German friend Andy Andexer (a true 02-guru if ever there was one!!) about 02's with leather seats.  He claimed that while leather seats had never officially been offered as a factory option for 02's, it had all along been a possibility for those who wanted something special and were willing to pay.  It's interesting Mike, that you mention BMW's Individual Program - I suppose this was in some way a simple and initial forerunner to it...

 

Somewhere on one of my external harddiscs I have pics of at least one of these RRL leather interiors.  I'll try my best to dig them out and post them later....
Oh and Steve, to the best of my knowledge, the doorcards would have been left unchanged in vinyl even if leather seats were ordered from factory.  I believe this was even the case on the range-topping E3's and E9's of that time.

[saaron]

5 hours ago, mike said:

Other than the fabled "last 200" '76s that were (allegedly) equipped with red leather interiors,

 

I forget, has one of these ever been found?  Are there pics?  I remember hearing about this multiple times.  

 

Scott

[MatthewCervi]

Those navy blue seats match the only factory leather I've ever seen on a 2002, but it was a square taillight car (as best as I can remember because it was around 2001).  They were pretty much in that condition or worse, too.

 

I also remember that the car had an electric sunroof instead of manual.

[percy]

Uncommon, yes.  Surprising, no.  It's been mentioned before that certain dealers and other individuals had significantly more clout with Max Hoffman and/or the Factory than others.  This included the occasional ability to order off the menu.  One might presume that Hoffman was responsible for printing the "Monroney" sticker and that the vehicle was imported with the listed options, rather than add-on options by the dealer.  Of course, there is always the possibility that the sticker included a special dealer installed add-on, considering that the sticker was prepared with a typewriter.  In any event. I don't find a leather option all that surprising, especially considering that the seats were not that different from contemporaneous E3 and E9 models that offered the option.

 

Standard equipment included reclining front seats.  But note too that the window sticker mentions "Lower reclining seats" as an option.   I can guess this may have been a tilt feature, although I can't recall it being offered except on later 6 cyl models.  One might also imagine that this feature could prove awkward without an adjustable steering wheel.  

 

How common was the tinted window option?  Might have come in handy with later add-on air conditioning.

 

When was the switch to tubeless tires?  Too the best of my recollection, my '73s and one a '74 all started out with tubes.

[John_in_VA]

David Lumbra photos - wasn't he "one of us?"

oh2fly (David Lumbra - 2002 Restorations) - he passed away last August in Eugene, Oregon.

[Conserv]

On 4/4/2017 at 7:12 PM, percy said:

 

 

....Standard equipment included reclining front seats.  But note too that the window sticker mentions "Lower reclining seats" as an option.   I can guess this may have been a tilt feature, although I can't recall it being offered except on later 6 cyl models.  One might also imagine that this feature could prove awkward without an adjustable steering wheel.  

 

 

Percy,

 

I hoped that all would be too distracted by the leather upholstery to even notice the lowered seats option, as it's hard to reconcile this 1973 appearance of the option with my understanding of the rationale behind the lowered seat option!  Oops!

 

My '76 has the factory lowered front seats.  It shouldn't.  And it didn't leave the factory with them. But it did leave the dealer with them!  The first photo shows them listed on my sales receipt: "LOW FRONT SEATS  12.00".  My dealer, recognizing I could not fit in either (a.) a sunroof '76 WITH lowered seats or (b.) a non-sunroof '76 with standard seats, and I was walking out the door, said "What if we take the lowered seats out of that new Chamonix (sunroof car) and put them in that new Polaris (non-sunroof car)?"  Done.

 

The lowered seats are approximately 1" lower than standard seats.  And until I saw the window sticker for VIN 2764457, I thought the lowered seats were invented with the advent of the '75-'76 (a.k.a., e21) seats, which sat higher than previous '02 seats.  Moreover, I've only previously seen these lowered seats associated with sunroof '75 and '76 models imported under BMW NA.  The second through fifth photos attached show window stickers for sunroof-equipped '75 and '76 cars, and each car came with lowered front seats.  When I was shopping for my '76, I don't recall seeing any sunroof cars without lowered front seats.  I've always wondered whether my dealer disclosed to the buyer of that Chamonix sunroof car that its lowered seats were gone!  I somehow doubt it.

 

So what's up with the leather-upholstered '73 tii?  Were leather seats taller, or less "compressible" than standard seats, requiring lowered seats from well before the '75 model year?  And no charge for lowered seats in '73?  I paid $12!

 

Hmmm...

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Conserv

[HBChris]

Dealer installed options were never added to the Munroney, like right side mirror, they would come on an additional piece of paper or on the dealer invoice like Steve posted.  And all US cars got the green tinted windows other than the early cars, 69/70 or thereabouts.

[Conserv]

Beginning, at least, with the September 1973 color and upholstery brochure, there was an explicit statement in each color brochure stating that you could get any upholstery, including leather, in most any car -- upon special order.

 

Allow me to quote the language from the September 1973 brochure:

 

"Should you have any requirements for a special upholstery (for example genuine leather) please contact your BMW dealer."

 

I doubt this policy first arose in September 1973; early color and upholstery brochures were simply devoid of text whereas the square taillight era seemed to bring on some "enhanced communication"!

 

Below, samples from the September 1973 and January 1975 color and upholstery brochures.

 

Still, find me another window sticker listing leather upholstery on an '02! ☺️

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Conserv

[Conserv]

11 hours ago, mike said:

....I'm sure an email to BMW Classic with the VIN would help clear it up.  

 

If anyone does that, please post your answer so we'll all know the story...

 

Maybe, Mike, but I suspect that the BMW Archives report will simply show it was manufactured on/about July 12, 1973, legally delivered to Hoffman Motors Corp (of New York City) on/about July 17, 1973, and was painted Golf, paint code 070.  We really need the original owner!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[Mike Self]

1 hour ago, Conserv said:

12 hours ago, mike said:

.I'm sure an email to BMW Classic with the VIN would help clear it up.  

 

If anyone does that, please post your answer so we'll all know the story...

 

Maybe, Mike, but I suspect that the BMW Archives report will simply show it was manufactured on/about July 12, 1973, legally delivered to Hoffman Motors Corp (of New York City) on/about July 17, 1973, and was painted Golf, paint code 070.  We really need the original owner!

But I'll bet BMW Classic could tell us once and for all that those upholstery brochures that stated "leather upholstery was available on all models except the 1502 and 518" could apply to US-delivered cars...that's a new one on me--now I'm gonna have to dig through my catalog collection to see what mine say.  I do know for sure it wasn't an option back in 1969 when I ordered my Nevada car; I have correspondence from Hoffman Motors in detail about what could be ordered and what couldn't.  

 

Interesting about the "lower reclining seats" too.  I've never seen that before....were the seats themselves actually shorter, or are the track supports that are welded to the body mounted lower? 

 

Oh, and the Mulroney stickers were computer printed, not typed.  And as HB Chris pointed out, dealer installed stuff was on a separate, typewritten sheet attached to the Mulroney.  Most common item was A/C.  

 

mike

[JerryC]

These are the seats that were mounted in my '72tii 2761401 when I bought it 20 years ago. They look like factory-made leather to me, but I'm definitely no upholstery expert. There's no paperwork to go with this. The leather is backed with a thin foam layer, then the horse hair pads. The back seat matches, by the way. Driver's seat is in better shape than the passenger's seat because the PO had a Recaro in the driver's seat for a long time so the "original" was not in use for quite a while. I've had both of these out of the car in my basement for a good 15 years.

Door panels are vinyl, slightly darker reddish brown, and the body color is Ceylon. It has a salvage title, was wrecked at some point long ago. The car has a factory sun roof, tinted windows, and rear defroster, too. I bought it from Rick Haner. He told me it had been his personal driver for some time. That's all I know about it, with any authority, everything else is stuff I heard about it from people who heard things about it.... It has history, the dash is one-piece and I've undone quite a few modifications that were performed prior to my watch. Some people here may know some more about this car.

I had a neighbor many years ago whose name escapes me, he worked at Bavarian Auto, has moved out of the area, and he owned a very nice Chamonix roundie that I saw once in his garage. A story he told me about the car was that Rick was working in a parts store in the Bay Area, a long time ago. Several people heard about this car that a dealer had special ordered, and it had been damaged in an accident. Rick got to it first. It apparently was pretty badly banged up in a t-bone crash. The worst thing I see wrong with it is the snorkel nose that has been installed at some time, and the nose has a little filler in it. There has been at least one respray, maybe more. The hood is shinier than the rest of the horizontal surfaces. All the numbers match. I found out about it through a Roundel ad which had a photo of the car rounding a turn, presumably on a track somewhere (poor recollection from so long ago). If the special order part of the story is more than just a story, it would help substantiate any real receipts you may find from other cars. Unfortunately, I have no historic paperwork for this car prior to my ownership. The main thing is, it's a '72, built on April 13, 1972, and delivered to Hoffman Motors according to the archives email. The story is it came with leather seats and other options. The story's worth about $.02, but it's kind of interesting to share.

The tags on the seat bottoms sure look like German stuff to me:

 

Back side of passenger seat tag, other seat tags have no stamp marks:

 

Back of this one is stamped with "3 72 5":

[wegweiser]

MatthreCervi: I remember that blue 74 with the electric sunroof and leather. In the mid 1990s, it was owned by a talented engineer / BMW shop owner named Isken of TüV Engineering in Rockville MD. It then sold to someone else, and I recall it around 2001-2002 era with it's new owner. 

 

For me, part of the romance of old cars, is that there are mysteries and hand chosen changes upon their delivery / construction from vehicle to vehicle...though on a mass produced "budget" car like the 2002, these were rare. I've never seen the fabled "two-tone black and white" door panels listed in the parts books, or some of the other colors... but there's documentation indicating they existed. I also recall the "low seats" option for sunroof cars, from my old microfiche parts monkey days. Interestingly enough, the "lowered" or "Niederesitze" also affected part numbers for the back rests - not just the lower seat cushion components.

Edited April 5, 2017 by wegweiser