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Two seat belt retractor questions


pklym

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1. When did the rear belts start using retractors, as opposed to just hand adjustable lap belts?

 

2. I see a lot of pictures of front belt retractors being mounted under the rear seat, where my 76's rear retractors are mounted. Did any 2002 come originally like this or were these all modifications for modern belts in older cars? My car, and many other pictures I see, have both the C end and retractor mounted to the same bolt directly below the pillar bolt.

 

Thanks

 

 

IMG_20170325_164834.jpg

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To answe number 1, I don't think they did start using retractors in general. There was a later option that used a retractor mounted to the top of the hat shelf but I am not sure how many actually made it out of the factory. 

 

This is the style of rear belt I am trying to replicate here: 

 

 

IMG_1021.thumb.PNG.e1c6264a34043069affcccd514bfbea4.PNG

rtheriaque wrote:

Carbs: They're necessary and barely controlled fuel leaks that sometimes match the air passing through them.

My build blog:http://www.bmw2002faq.com/blog/163-simeons-blog/

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1 hour ago, pklym said:

Really? I would have been confident the set up visible in my car are originals. They are REPAs stamped with BMW logos and seem to fit with the side panel seamlessly.

I don't think US market cars ever came with rear retractor belts, but other markets did so there were factory parts available to retrofit them.  That's what I did with my former tii about 15 years ago.

 

Edit:  Bah..I misread the question.  I was thinking rear 3-point belts, not retractors.

Edited by MatthewCervi

Matthew Cervi
'71 Bavaria

'18 M2

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10 minutes ago, pklym said:

Different location but same belts. Interesting.

There are additional holes along the sill that are the same size.  You can see one in the picture while the second is capped with a plastic plug.  It's possible the PO took off the retractors and simply remounted them in the forward hole.

 

I feel they should originally be where mine are located because of the way the vinyl is cut to clear the bolt.  Could be wrong, though.

Threaded Hole.png

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The front seat retractors were never mounted with those holes under the rear seat, always visible with the other end using the same bolt.  I modified a 69 with three point fixed front belts by mounting them under the rear seat though, worked fine but the was no B pillar mounting nut either, had to use the fixed mount under the rear quarter window.

HBChris

`73 3.0CS Chamonix, `69 2000 NK Atlantik

`70 2800 Polaris, `79 528i Chamonix

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4 minutes ago, HBChris said:

The front seat retractors were never mounted with those holes under the rear seat, always visible with the other end using the same bolt.  I modified a 69 with three point fixed front belts by mounting them under the rear seat though, worked fine but the was no B pillar mounting nut either, had to use the fixed mount under the rear quarter window.

I added retractable 3-point front belts to my 69, by drilling an access hole to secure a lockwasher and nut.  Unfortunately, the rear seat pinches the belt and the low(er) location of the upper point is less than desirable.  Still waiting for a better fix (ahem - 02Princess Lisa has been asked about her Derby).

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Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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Just a word of warning early cars used the below the window mounting point and it was found that the lower than shoulder mounting in the case of a head on collision would pull downward on your back while the 3 point belt would allow  a twisting motion resulting in severe back injury with a high rate of paralysis, if you have a early car and get a chance to change to the door pillar mount PLEASE DO SO. Oh and I thing the retractors for the rear seats came with the square light cars but I could be wrong about that.

Edited by Son of Marty
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George S Patton 

Planning the Normandy Break out 1944

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Based on my experience dealing with 2002 seat belts in the last 10 years, I think the 3 point retractable front and 2 point automatic rear lap belts (Autoflug brand) were installed around mid 72 production,I don't know the exact production date. I suspect US cars were installed first due to DOT regulations at that time, and Euro cars followed right after. I believe Repa brand belts were introduced somewhere in 73; 73 and 74 cars came with both Autoflugs and Repa belts and I think all 75 and 76 models came equipped with Repa belts, at least for US cars. We can't know for sure which car came with which brand unless the original build sheet is still around.Some world markets other than US got different brand belts; Britax was one of the brands especially used in Turbo models. Some Swedish cars were installed Klippan belts but they may be aftermarket retrofits. There were also different version of Autoflug belts, although differences mostly in the retractor mechanisms and buckles. The 3 point retractable rear belts (Autoflug) that utilize the c-pillar mounting was an option which sold only for a few years (may be in late 90s and early 2000s). I was lucky enough to find a few NOS rear 3 point belts few years back, and sold them to some lucky 3.0 CS coupe owners (who could afford them). I still have a set of retractors which I kept for my own pleasure. 

 

Installing 3 point belts to early cars as Jim and others mentioned is not the best way, but everything else being equal, it is a relatively simple retrofit to provide a slightly better safety option than lap belts or no belts at all. As for safety concerns, seat belts alone will not save your ass in a 40+ year old car with a very weak original chassis (compared to modern cars) and rusty chassis (especially the rocker panels where seat belts are mounted).

Have a safe driving...

     

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On 3/26/2017 at 11:54 PM, bluedevils said:

Based on my experience dealing with 2002 seat belts in the last 10 years, I think the 3 point retractable front and 2 point automatic rear lap belts (Autoflug brand) were installed around mid 72 production,I don't know the exact production date.

Factory shop manual says inertia reel front belts were installed in US cars (replacing the steel loop style) beginning with 2580042 (carb), 2533914 (auto) and 2763515 (tii).  However the book doesn't indicate what type of belts were used on tii's between VINs 2760234 and 2763514.  Pg 72-10 shows the loop style (non inertia reel) belt being used up to VIN 2760234, but pg 72-11 shows the inertia reel belts not beginning until VIN 2763515.  Perhaps this number is a misprint, because obviously seat belts were fitted on those cars in between but the parts book doesn't say what style.  Anyone with a tii between those numbers--what kind of seat belt do you have?  '73 tii production began with 2762630, and carb cars at 2585138, so I doubt if the factory waited until well into 1973 tii production before fitting inertia reels, when they were going into carbed cars and automatics well before that...

 

And the parts book doesn't show retractable rear belts for any US spec cars--at least none I could find.  Another error in the parts book, perhaps?

 

And BTW, those little plastic plugs in the frame rails under the back seat simply plug access holes to the rocker panels; you'll find more under the carpet further forward.  They make great access holes for squiring rustproofing into the inner rocker panels.

 

cheers

mike 

Edited by mike

'69 Nevada sunroof-Wolfgang-bought new
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46 minutes ago, bluedevils said:

Based on my experience dealing with 2002 seat belts in the last 10 years, I think the 3 point retractable front and 2 point automatic rear lap belts (Autoflug brand) were installed around mid 72 production,I don't know the exact production date. I suspect US cars were installed first due to DOT regulations at that time, and Euro cars followed right after. I believe Repa brand belts were introduced somewhere in 73; 73 and 74 cars came with both Autoflugs and Repa belts and I think all 75 and 76 models came equipped with Repa belts, at least for US cars.

     

 

If I am reading this right, you are saying retractors on the rear began mid-72? so not just square tails?

 

And the answer to my question number 2 is that mine are installed the stock way, the other mounting option is just used when people are installing in cars that didn't have them.

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