Adding interval wipers to 69 2002 help

[jgerock]

Hoping someone here can assist me in my quest to upgrade the wipers in my 69 2002 to have an intermittent function (and get the parking mechanism to work).

 

Car is a 2nd series 69 2002 with 6 fuse 12V electrical system.

 

Right column stalk is only for turn signals  - does not turn the wipers on/off like the later Roundies.

 

Dash wiper switch controls the wiper motor (originally 2 speeds).

 

Cylindrical Wipe/wash delay relay mounted to engine cowl. (on left in this picture)

 

Original 69 wiper motor changed to 71 motor (that has more wires - only used (3) + ground to get it working).  I followed this old Roundel instruction guide but still cannot get the 71 motor to park.

 

When I upgraded the 73tii to have intermittent wipers in 2009, I changed out the wiper relay under the dash, the wiper switch and a harness (all supplied by Sherman Martinez).  This upgrade was a "kit" originally supplied by BMW.   

 

I'd like to incorporate an intermittent feature and get the 71 motor to park when I turn the dash switch off.  The BMW orange parts book shows different switches and relays for the Model 71 cars, but I think I need different parts IF I retain the stock 69 TS switch on the column (and not change it to the 72 & 73 stalk).

 

Much appreciated if you can help.

 

 

[TobyB]

Ok, thanks to Nijn's big late color diagram, and the early one in Clymers-

 

Early car- provides:

low =yellow 12v

high =black 12v

park = green 12v

 

Late car- provides:

Stop: white/black grounded

Interval: white/black switched between 12v and ground via interval relay

low: white/black 12v

high: both yellow/black and white/black 12v (? the function of the interval relay is not included in the diagram)

 

And this is what I recall- the late car needs a ground (via the interval relay)

to park, or the wipers run on past the 'park' gap, and never park.  In the early

motor, that ground is provided inside the motor itself- and is one reason the early

park circuit fails- it's snubbing quite a lot of current to brake the motor.

 

To get it to park, you'd have to add a relay that got a 'park' signal from the motor.  To get it to interval AND park, you'd have to add another

switch that could open the relay and power the white/black wire...

 

How to do that, I'm not sure.  On Jenn's car, we did it with a different switch, a relay, and an aftermarket interval timer.

About 20 years ago, so the details have long escaped me...

 

Hope this gets you started,

t

 

 

 

[732002Malaga]

Find Jason Pappalexis. He makes intermittent wiper switches for M10's. He may have one for your car he did one for my 73. 

[zinz]

I'll text JP for you, Jim. 

 

Ed

[jgerock]

Thanks for the assistance!  Driving a late model car that has so many features (like auto speed sensing wipers in the E90) makes it difficult to operate the simple wipers in the 69 (dash switch on/off/on/off, etc.).  I'm betting that BMW changed the stalk to include the on/off feature from increasing USA regulations. Both hands  on the wheel is better than only one.

 

i do have the wiper switch and relay from the 71 if they are of some use.

[Mike Self]

I did an intermittent conversion on my second series '69 using an aftermarket kit (not Bosch or Hella) but a US-made one meant for a US car. However, I made it work on my '02 with the one caveat below.   BMW never made a conversion kit for the pre "wiper relay" cars like ours, only for the modell 71 cars that have the electronic relay under the dash that controls both wipers and the wash/wipe sequence.  

 

I used a 3 speed heater switch to give an extra position for the intermittent wiper speed, and the stroke interval is controlled by a sliding switch that's on the aftermarket control kit I installed and mounted under the dash.  The only thing I have to be aware of is that when turning the wipers off from either low or high speed, I have to pause at the intermittent position for just a couple of seconds or the wipers won't stop.  

 

I did this many years ago, and thought I made a sketch of the wiring diagram, but if I did, it's in the car and it's stashed away for the winter.  However, I can tell you the wiring for the wash/wipe setup is completely separate from the wiring changes you make for interval wiper installation.   

 

IIRC Dave Hoovler went through the same conversion on his '70--using an aftermarket control box and a 3 speed heater switch--but discovered a way to make the wipers shut off properly without pausing--it involved putting a diode in the wiring, but I'm not enough of an electronics guy to tell you how or where.  Hopefully Dave will read this and comment.  You might also check the archives, as I think he posted his fix.

 

I believe Hella still makes a kit for our early cars; check their web site.

 

cheers

mike

[JsnPpp]

7 hours ago, jgerock said:

Thanks for the assistance!  Driving a late model car that has so many features (like auto speed sensing wipers in the E90) makes it difficult to operate the simple wipers in the 69 (dash switch on/off/on/off, etc.).  I'm betting that BMW changed the stalk to include the on/off feature from increasing USA regulations. Both hands  on the wheel is better than only one.

 

i do have the wiper switch and relay from the 71 if they are of some use.

Hi Jim,

 

I built an interval kit for 72/73 cars that just plug in between the existing wiper stalk wiring.  I don't know that the wiring is the same on the 69's.  It should _basically_ be the same however, but wouldn't be plug and play however.

 

I only have '73s so never had another to work with!  Happy to discuss further if it helps.

Jason

[HBChris]

If the motor won't park at all, open up the back of the motor and clean the brass contacts which will be caked with very old grease.

[TobyB]

Quote

i do have the wiper switch and relay from the 71 if they are of some use.

 

Well, why didn't you list those in our assets? <grin>

You can pretty easily wire it up like a later car, then use Jason's kit.

All good!  And easy to troubleshoot later.

 

t

[jgerock]

2 hours ago, HBChris said:

If the motor won't park at all, open up the back of the motor and clean the brass contacts which will be caked with very old grease.

I recently did this without any benefit.  Think the wiring I did (same as the Roundel tech ed - most likely Michel P.) was different.  I haven't tested the washer pump yet so I am not sure if the relay still works.

 

 

[jgerock]

2 hours ago, mike said:

I did an intermittent conversion on my second series '69 using an aftermarket kit (not Bosch or Hella) but a US-made one meant for a US car. However, I made it work on my '02 with the one caveat below.   BMW never made a conversion kit for the pre "wiper relay" cars like ours, only for the modell 71 cars that have the electronic relay under the dash that controls both wipers and the wash/wipe sequence.  

 

I used a 3 speed heater switch to give an extra position for the intermittent wiper speed, and the stroke interval is controlled by a sliding switch that's on the aftermarket control kit I installed and mounted under the dash.  The only thing I have to be aware of is that when turning the wipers off from either low or high speed, I have to pause at the intermittent position for just a couple of seconds or the wipers won't stop.  

 

I did this many years ago, and thought I made a sketch of the wiring diagram, but if I did, it's in the car and it's stashed away for the winter.  However, I can tell you the wiring for the wash/wipe setup is completely separate from the wiring changes you make for interval wiper installation.   

 

IIRC Dave Hoovler went through the same conversion on his '70--using an aftermarket control box and a 3 speed heater switch--but discovered a way to make the wipers shut off properly without pausing--it involved putting a diode in the wiring, but I'm not enough of an electronics guy to tell you how or where.  Hopefully Dave will read this and comment.  You might also check the archives, as I think he posted his fix.

 

I believe Hella still makes a kit for our early cars; check their web site.

 

cheers

mike

The BMW instructions do not state which year it is compatible- but it does state the old underdash wiper relay gets replaced by the different version.

 

kit part number for LHD cars is/was 61 31 9 557 160

 

applicable models: 1602/1802/2002/2002A/2002ti /2002tii touring, 1600, 1800, 2000, 2000A and 2000tii

 

Easiest thing for me to do is replace the stalk, switch and relay and make the harness (bypassing the stock washer delay relay).

[jgerock]

Ugh- just remembered the 69 stalks are hard wired - later Roundies use the plug and socket style connectors at the steering column bracket. 

[dasfrogger]

This thread is great - Thanks to @jgerock for posting about all the questions I know i'm going to have well in advance of when I'll have them. "subscribed" for future reference.

[Mike Self]

Jim

The NLA BMW factory intermittent wiper kit is only for the 72-73 cars (and possibly late '71's) that have the underdash relay, a stalk-mounted wiper on/off/wash switch and the low/high speed switch on the dash.   There never was a factory kit for our early (pre modell 71) cars.  And I think it would be easier to install one of the aftermarket delay modules in your car than to try and transplant the whole later style (with relay) motor, wiring harness and relay into your '69.   I discovered that when I added the intermittent module to my '69.

 

The wash/wipe circuit on your '69 isn't involved at all with the intermittent circuitry so you don't need to mess with it.  If you're checking that circuit, I have its wiring diagram; PM me and I'll send it to you.

 

cheers

mike 

 

 

[TobyB]

Mike, I think the problem is that Jim has a later motor that needs to be braked by the interval relay.  That, combined with the early (6 fuse)

wiring and switch is rather a pain.  The diagram I posted above is for early cars.

 

I still vote to rewire the rest of it to match the motor.  Or get an early motor, and then do as you suggest with aftermarket delay.

Trying to combine the 2 systems and make it intermittent gets kind of Rube- Goldberg...

 

t