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High idle, stutter at 2500rpm


SoFlo 02

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++1  on replacing all fuel lines.

 

About the throttle spring.  Yes, it looks good; however, the question is... does it hold enough tension on the throttle rod when it is closed.  (does the throttle wiggle at all, up and down?) In other words, the spring should snap the throttle closed when you take your foot off the gas.  It the spring runs out of tension before the throttle is completely closed, then you can get a high/inconsistent idle. 

 

The hose on the air cleaner assembly looks like it got into an argument with the fan blade at some point... I'd replace it because it brings cooler air from in front of the car, instead of hot, engine bay air.  New hoses are available from Blunt.  They can set you up with all the other parts you will be needing... plus free ice cream  https://www.blunttech.com/

 

Order a Haynes manual...it documents everything you'll need for maintenance and repairs.  Best $20 you can spend right now.

 

Best of luck this weekend,

 

Ed

 

 

'69 Granada... long, long ago  

'71 Manila..such a great car

'67 Granada 2000CS...way cool

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Yes the throttle return spring is slack at idle try to find another place to hook it so it has some pull on it when it hits the idle screw. The air cleaner hose is definitely shot but that won't affect the running of the engine, as stated above replace all the cloth covered fuel lines and don't ship the short pieces from the tank to the plastic fuel line and vent line under the trunk floor boards.

OOOPs, I see Minty beat me on the trunk lines. 

Edited by Son of Marty

If everybody in the room is thinking the same thing, then someone is not thinking.

 

George S Patton 

Planning the Normandy Break out 1944

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One step ahead of you on the Haynes!

I'll order a rebuild for the carb as well as all the other things you've all listed.

When one of my roommates gets home I'll have them help me test the spring. It does seem pretty seek.


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For that spring, there are usually a couple holes on that firewall edge, or you can hook the other end to a different place on the throttle arm.  Placement is not hyper-critical, but it must be secure.  

 

Warm up the engine and run thru Mark's idle adjustment procedure... it shouldn't take 5 minutes.  I bet you get it to idle below 1000 rpm in short order.

I've added the mixture screw location to this picture, it's on the backside below the accelerator pump.

58b9fe7c8683d_SingleSolexII.thumb.jpg.02db5683fc857092946495b8e7b46294.jpg

 

Don't be skeered... it's a simple adjustment.  With a warm engine, do as Mark so perfectly stated:

 

"To set up the carb with the engine off, you need to back off the Idle Speed Adjustment screw until it just touches the throttle linkage, then turn it clockwise 1.5 turns.  Then turn the idle mixture screw, just left and under the acelerator pump clockwise until it seats, (not to tight to avoid damaging the needle valve) and then turn it out (counter clockwise) 1.5 turns.  Start the engine, it should barely idle.   Using the idle mixture screw, turn it in until the idle becomes rough and then back out until the engine runs smoother, you are searching for the spot where the engine idle is highest and smooth.  Once the engine is high and smooth, use the idle speed adjustment screw to back the idle off to 850-900 RPM and you are done. "

 

Ed

 

'69 Granada... long, long ago  

'71 Manila..such a great car

'67 Granada 2000CS...way cool

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Just got a timing light, fuel filter, and ordered the rebuild kit (coming Tuesday)!

I tinkered with the idle speed screw and it lowered slightly, but I'll go through the full process!

All the advice is making this a lot less intimidating!


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Good news! I replaced the fuel filter and followed the idle steps last night and it made a huge improvement. Idle is about 950.

It still surges at 2500-3000rpm but it's not nearly as bad anymore.


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Excellent!

 

Surging will likely be solved when you rebuild the carb. The wet seals and accelerator pump are signs of minor fuel leaks which will   be fixed with the rebuild kit. 

 

replace those fuel lines and then take a look at your spark plugs and points. Checking/Setting the ignition timing may also glean some improvements. 

 

Glad you are making progress. 

 

Ed

Edited by zinz

'69 Granada... long, long ago  

'71 Manila..such a great car

'67 Granada 2000CS...way cool

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As far as timing goes, do you have a link to a comprehensive guide?

I went through the technical articles and didn't see one, a forum search found people saying there are 3 ways to do it, and my manual doesn't arrive until tomorrow.

I have my new timing light and I'm itching to use it!

-Shamus


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Just noticed something...
 
Is your throttle return spring closing the throttle completely? (this would give a high, inconsistent idle) It just looks like it's hanging slightly loose.   Esty suggested this in your other thread, actually.
 
Have you tried backing off the idle speed screw to reduce the engine's idle speed ?  Also, you can easily remove the idle jet and spray it out with carb cleaner as they are notorious for getting crud in them and causing poor running.
58b9a4066325d_SingleSolexII.thumb.jpg.add9464da726e8d1a5f878fd83a48823.jpg
 
Hope this helps.
 
Ed
 

I agree, I have this carb too and poor idle was solved by pullnd the idle screw and jet and spraying with carb cleaner.

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Check the point gap first and plugs before timing, but that is also very simple and quick.

 

The trickiest part of setting timing is seeing the timing marks in the peephole at the top of the bellhousing.  There are marks on the lower crank pulley at the front of the engine, many folks use them, instead.

 

Here's some pics:

02IGNITIONTIMING.thumb.jpg.d9837758792a57793f230ec9b36b971c.jpg

 

When I was swapping in the 5 speed I painted the timing marks on the flywheel to more easily see them in the strobe

 

58bae30db0d56_2002flywheelmarks.jpg.91908bf4b9e22d6c35f38110f7016b8b.jpg

 

The "Z" ball is the BB most folks talk about and is used for standard timing.  The OT line is top dead center and one you would use to reference for setting "advanced" timing.

 

If you use the crank pulley, the marks will look like this: (you will need to paint them)

 

58bae4e36b7f7_crankpulleymarks.JPG.8f480bc9f2e0d849dfd10763d05ef6be.JPG

graphic

There may be a couple notches on the front pulley, the one all by itself should be TDC.  There may two very close together... they are for setting static timing. 

 

Basics:

  • Warm up the engine
  • Remove the vacuum line from the distributor vacuum pot and plug the line (golf tee works perfectly)
  • Bring the engine to the desired rpm with the idle speed screw on the carb
  • If you are using the advancing settings and timing to the TDC mark on the crank pulley then pick a value from those listed here:  Haynes ignition specs.pdf
  • To change the timing you loosen the clamping bolt at the base of the distributor (this bolt is not very heavy and can be stripped/snapped easily, so be careful when tightening it back) Loosen that clamp just enough to barely turn the dizzy; too loose and it's difficult to get it clamped back down without changing the setting.
  • You will find that as you turn the dizzy, the engine speed changes... you will have to go back and forth with the idle speed screw and the dizzy to match the engine speed to timing marks.
  • At the point where the rpm and the timing marks all align, tighten the clamp on the dizzy's base.
  • Go back and double check that the timing marks haven't moved (they always seem to creep a bit when tightening the dizzy down)
  • Reattach the vacuum line to the pot on the side of the distributor (make sure that vacuum line is in good shape and the connections are snug)
  • Test drive the car.  Especially under load (3rd gear at low speed, or up a steep hill) listening closely for pinging

 

Personally, I like to set timing at 2000 rpm, because it's a nice round number and easy for me to remember, I find the engine rarely stutters at that speed. For your car, I might suggest starting off at a mild setting of 28 degrees at 2000 rpm. (Haynes manual gives a range of 25-35 degrees at 2000 rpm. If after drive-testing, there are no signs of detonation, you can add a few degrees and see how the car reacts.)

 

There is ABSOLUTELY an instance of adding too much advance and if you hear "pinging" under load (the clattering as you step on the gas) then you MUST retard the ignition several degrees. Don't drive the car like this or you will hurt the engine (bad things, like melting a piston and such)  This is an extreme example, but even minor pinging will lead to permanent damage. Another sign of too much advance is hard cranking at start up. Again, back off a few degrees  to alleviate this.  

 

Here's some great info on Ignition Timing 

TimingPart3page1.thumb.jpg.3f56f3c6d0cfc685e28d0c019976d4cf.jpg

Timingpart3page2.thumb.jpg.0c4828ebfe1f6b08aa2c2a8ba4368e7c.jpg

Timingpart3page3.thumb.jpg.dd431dd714ad061ba983e1679d3b4a60.jpg

 

 

Enjoy ! :)

 

It's simple...

 

Ed Z

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by zinz

'69 Granada... long, long ago  

'71 Manila..such a great car

'67 Granada 2000CS...way cool

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+ 1 on the accelerator pump--if it's not functioning properly you'll get a stumble on acceleration whether the car is under load or not.  Easy test:  with the engine off, look down the carb throat and work the accelerator linkage; you should see a squirt of fuel coming out a nozzle in the throat.  No squirt = no accelerator pump.  Just rebuilt the whole carb--that choke plate looks pretty nasty and chances are the rest of the carb's innards are too.  It's an easy job on a 1 bbl Solex, and has been pointed out they're bulletproof--the one on my '69 is still going strong at 224k miles.

 

The fuel hose between the filter and fuel pump looks wet.  That's a sure sign of a leaking hose.  Mechanical pumps would much rather suck air than fuel (it's less dense) so a porous hose will cause fuel starvation downstream.  Change all those fabric covered hoses in the whole fuel system.  

 

Check the vacuum hose that runs to the distributor from the carb.  Disconnect at the carb end, pop the dizzy cap off and suck on the hose.  If you feel resistance, and see the point plate move slightly, that's good.  If there's no resistance and the point plate doesn't move, then the vacuum diaphragm in the dizzy is shot, and you have a significant vacuum leak.  You also have no vacuum advance on your ignition timing, which can also cause a problem.

 

Let us know whatcha find...

 

mike

 

 

'69 Nevada sunroof-Wolfgang-bought new
'73 Sahara sunroof-Ludwig-since '78
'91 Brillantrot 318is sunroof-Georg Friederich 
Fiat Topolini (Benito & Luigi), Renault 4CVs (Anatole, Lucky Pierre, Brigette) & Kermit, the Bugeye Sprite

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The fuel hose between the filter and fuel pump looks wet.  That's a sure sign of a leaking hose.  Mechanical pumps would much rather suck air than fuel (it's less dense) so a porous hose will cause fuel starvation downstream.  Change all those fabric covered hoses in the whole fuel system.  
 
 


After the fuel lines I'll be sure to test the accel pump and distributor vacuum!

I'm looking at it now and there's one hose that looks like it goes behind the firewall. Any suggestions for that hose?

Shamus
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Are you talking about the fuel line that goes through the firewall?  If so, the rubber fuel line under the hood attaches to a rigid, plastic line right there near the firewall.  Remove and replace the rubber line.  The white, plastic fuel line runs from the firewall through the passenger compartment and into the trunk...it's made of a special plastic that shrinks shut in case of fire.  

'69 Granada... long, long ago  

'71 Manila..such a great car

'67 Granada 2000CS...way cool

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