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Whirring transmission/clutch when in Neutral


ymanchik

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is there oil in the trans?

 

not going into 1st could be a clutch problem- either the hydraulics or the pressure plate. 

small chance it could be the pilot bearing...

 

the noise is not your clutch, most likely, it's the trans.  When you press in the clutch,

it 'whirrs to a stop', right, not suddenly disappears?

 

And if it's the trans, bets are on the countershaft bearings- they're not weak, but

something has to go eventually, and they're it.

 

Try fresh, heavy gear oil, and see if it changes.

 

t

 

"I learn best through painful, expensive experience, so I feel like I've gotten my money's worth." MattL

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1 minute ago, TobyB said:

is there oil in the trans?

 

not going into 1st could be a clutch problem- either the hydraulics or the pressure plate. 

small chance it could be the pilot bearing...

 

the noise is not your clutch, most likely, it's the trans.  When you press in the clutch,

it 'whirrs to a stop', right, not suddenly disappears?

 

And if it's the trans, bets are on the countershaft bearings- they're not weak, but

something has to go eventually, and they're it.

 

Try fresh, heavy gear oil, and see if it changes.

 

t

 

There should be, I just replaced all the fluids about a year ago. What would be considered a heavy gear oil? 85W-140?

 

So would a new clutch kit fix that problem?

 

Yes, it whirrs to a stop. I'll try the gear oil first before I start replacing parts.

 

Thanks.

1970 BMW 2002

1977 BMW R75/7

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Have you checked the oil in the transmission? I would start with changing the oil, that will give you the chance to look at the magnet on the drain plug.  If it is really "furry" or has big pieces stuck to it you have a major problem inside the gearbox. You can find a good used 4 speed for a fraction of the cost to rebuild one. 

 

It most likely is NOT the clutch, TOB or pilot bearing. If it was the TOB the noise would CHANGE when you first start to depress the clutch even before the clutch is disengaged. The pilot bearing does nothing when the clutch is engaged as the input shaft, flywheel, clutch disc, pressure plate AND crankshaft are all turning at exactly the same speed (pilot bearings make noise when the crank is turning and the input shaft ISN'T). If there was a broken spring or loose rivets in the clutch disc it would make a tone more noise when you are driving.  

 

My guess is a bad front countershaft bearing inside the transmission.  If you have an early transmission with the Porsche style syncros you would be huge money ahead finding a 72-76 transmission, they are a direct swap and a much better trans. Talk to Patrick at Midnight Motorsport he might know where to find a good 4 speed.  Dan Patzer might also have one, hell I might even have one tucked away that I have forgotten about. 

1970 1602 (purchased 12/1974)

1974 2002 Turbo

1988 M5

1986 Euro 325iC

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1 minute ago, Preyupy said:

Have you checked the oil in the transmission? I would start with changing the oil, that will give you the chance to look at the magnet on the drain plug.  If it is really "furry" or has big pieces stuck to it you have a major problem inside the gearbox. You can find a good used 4 speed for a fraction of the cost to rebuild one. 

 

It most likely is NOT the clutch, TOB or pilot bearing. If it was the TOB the noise would CHANGE when you first start to depress the clutch even before the clutch is disengaged. The pilot bearing does nothing when the clutch is engaged as the input shaft, flywheel, clutch disc, pressure plate AND crankshaft are all turning at exactly the same speed (pilot bearings make noise when the crank is turning and the input shaft ISN'T). If there was a broken spring or loose rivets in the clutch disc it would make a tone more noise when you are driving.  

 

My guess is a bad front countershaft bearing inside the transmission.  If you have an early transmission with the Porsche style syncros you would be huge money ahead finding a 72-76 transmission, they are a direct swap and a much better trans. Talk to Patrick at Midnight Motorsport he might know where to find a good 4 speed.  Dan Patzer might also have one, hell I might even have one tucked away that I have forgotten about. 

Really appreciate this! I'm leaning towards just replacing the transmission with a Getrag 242. I think I have a 232 but will double check tomorrow. I reached out to Steve at Blunttech and he said he would check if he has any countershaft bearings, if not or if it's too expensive, he said swapping in a 242 would be the way to go as well. 

 

If you have a good 242 you're willing to sell, let me know, I'll save a bit by not having to pay for shipping. I'll check with Patrick as well. Thanks again for the recommendations.

1970 BMW 2002

1977 BMW R75/7

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Besides the input shaft bearing, I would suspect the pilot bearing in the crankshaft.  A bad throwout bearing is noticeable only when the clutch pedal is pushed in; other times it's not engaged.  The pilot shaft bearing is working any time the crankshaft and tranny input shaft are turning at different speeds, like when the car is in neutral and you don't have your foot on the clutch pedal.

 

Once the tranny is out, replacement is a fairly easy operation and the bearing itself is inexpensive--a much easier job than replacing bearings internal to the tranny!

 

Let us know whatcha find...

 

cheers

mike

'69 Nevada sunroof-Wolfgang-bought new
'73 Sahara sunroof-Ludwig-since '78
'91 Brillantrot 318is sunroof-Georg Friederich 
Fiat Topolini (Benito & Luigi), Renault 4CVs (Anatole, Lucky Pierre, Brigette) & Kermit, the Bugeye Sprite

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I think I'd go looking for a used transmission, or spending the money to do 5 speed swap rather than rebuilding. It may cost a few hundred to find out it needs more than a bearing or two.

Edited by Hans
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45 minutes ago, Hans said:

 

I think I'd go looking for a used transmission, or spending the money to do 5 speed swap rather than rebuilding. It may cost a few hundred to find out it needs more than a bearing or two.

I found a used 4-spd from another board member near me and it's been fine. Once the oil was changed and it was used a little, it works great. It had been sitting in his garage since the 80s. 

mike tunney

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Quote

The pilot shaft bearing is working any time the crankshaft and tranny input shaft are turning at different speeds, like when the car is in neutral and you DO have your foot on the clutch pedal.

Fixed that, Mike...

 

t

 

"I learn best through painful, expensive experience, so I feel like I've gotten my money's worth." MattL

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