123Ignition Set-Up / Installation Information Collaborative

[Simeon]

 

The stock curves have lower initial advance than I have. As soon as you change the carb on your car (as many of us have to 32/36 Webers) then your car can benefit from more initial advance. This helps you to tune your carb to idle on the idle jet and not the transition. My car is also fitted with a 292 cam, this also benefits from some additional advance at idle since the the power band is moved up slightly and the volumetric efficiency is low at idle. 

[zinz]

I've always asked folks to refer to the ignition advance numbers listed on the first pages of the Ignition Chapter in the Haynes manual (pages 66-67) For each model, the advance numbers are listed with the corresponding rpm.  

 

I programmed my 123 with the Ti curve and started tweaking from there. I've said this many times and I'll mention this again, here.  I programmed my 123 with the Ti curve, then, using the advance #s found in the Haynes manual, I used my advancing timing light to manually set timing at 2000rpm (by turning the dizzy).  Haynes (and Blue BMW Manuals) give a range of 28-32 degrees at 2000rpm.  I set my side draft car at 30 degrees at 2000rpm and it runs VERY well.  (292 cam and stock bottom end with flat tops, 40mm side drafts and long tube header).  I've run it like this for several years with no adverse affects...no pinging, no hot-looking plugs, idles very smooth and pulls like a freight train.  

 

Like I say, I've tweaked the Ti curve a bit and added 10 degrees of vacuum advance (Solex DDHs have vacuum ports).  I am interested in tweaking the upper end of the curve with the info shared by JimK and Simeon about retarding the advance a tad at the upper end. My car starts running out of steam at about 5750rpm and I'm betting that using their theory, I bet I can get it to keep pulling a bit better, despite being "off the cam".   We'll see...

 

I'm about to pull this car out of the garage and get it prepped for MidAm.  Hopefully, I will have time to play with the curve a bit before hand.  

 

Ed Z

 

Here's the Haynes specs I mention above:  Haynes ignition specs.pdf

 

 

[silasmoon]

What does your vacuum advance curve look like? I have a 292 with 38/38 and am running:

0 - 0
1100 - 16
2200 - 26
3000 - 35
8000 - 35

START 1400 rpm
0 / 0
29 / 0
40 / 9.5
75 / 9.5
85/0

It runs well, but I wonder if I could crank it up more. 30 @ 2000 seems fairly aggressive no? 

[zinz]

I'll have to connect to my 123 to get the curve #s... I forget them now. 

 

30 degrees at 2000rpm...aggressive ? It's spec'd in the manual for the Ti dizzy. 

 

I do warn folks to work up to that kind of advance, especially if you have piano tops. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by zinz

[silasmoon]

Ah yes okay I see now. Interesting about only 6 deg of vacuum advance is recommended. I am also confused as to it mentioning the vacuum advance is only for between 5-8 Hg/in. 

[GazM3]

Just about to join in the fun.  

 

I pick up my 123 (Bluetooth) on Friday.  The current dizzy curve is too much advance down low and not enough up high.  Should be able to get it nice everywhere hopefully. 

 

My specs are as follows

• comp 10:1,

• fuel is ron98 (aki93) 

• 300deg cam

• s14 crank 84mm stroke

• dcoe45 with 38mm Venturi

 

I’ll run a similar tune to most and see how I go. 

Edited June 26, 2018 by GazM3

[Ram Levinson]

Hi Simon

i have contacted the 123ignition support and this is what they wrote to me:

"

We don't recommend the MSD.

Our ignition produces enough energy for a good spark.

If you use the MSD all the energy goes through the Rotor and cap. Actually you are "welding" between the rotor tip and contact in the distributor Cap" 

have you experience this "welding" phenomena ?

 

Regards

Ram 

['76mintgrün'02]

Unfortunately @Simeon last signed in back in January of 2020.  I hope he's okay.  I really miss his contributions to the site.

 

The little spring loaded contact button inside the cap is made of graphite, (like electric motor brushes), so it will not weld itself to the brass contact on top of the rotor.  Technically.

 

FAQ member Dudeland has a photo showing his blown-up/melted rotor that had built in resistance and that happened while using MSD components.  There are rotors with a solid contact (no resistor) for use with the added juice that MSD offers.

123 ignitions offers that style rotor as well and it says on their site that they are for use with MSD.  Perhaps the person you communicated with was saying they do not recommend MSD with the standard resistor-style rotor. 

 

I'd ask again and refer to the fact that they sell a rotor that " is intended to lengthen the life of the cap and rotor when used in conjunction with CDI units like Winterburn and MSD"

 

https://123ignitionusa.com/oem-rotor-modified-no-resistor-for-all-4-and-6-cyl-123-applications/

 

Tom

[Carlos_M]

On 7/29/2021 at 9:47 PM, Ram Levinson said:

Hi Simon

i have contacted the 123ignition support and this is what they wrote to me:

"

We don't recommend the MSD.

Our ignition produces enough energy for a good spark.

If you use the MSD all the energy goes through the Rotor and cap. Actually you are "welding" between the rotor tip and contact in the distributor Cap" 

have you experience this "welding" phenomena ?

 

Regards

Ram 

I ran into a similar issue with my MSD and 123, in that the rotor "hand grenaded" during a drive, but luckily I was close to my office. The rotor I had in place was not the one with the resistor removed but a regular one.  I've since replaced my cap and rotor with the removed resistor cap and all is well.  Mine looked just like the one posted by @'76mintgrün'02 

  

[sczapiga]

On 4/18/2017 at 4:51 PM, Simeon said:

 

The stock curves have lower initial advance than I have. As soon as you change the carb on your car (as many of us have to 32/36 Webers) then your car can benefit from more initial advance. This helps you to tune your carb to idle on the idle jet and not the transition. My car is also fitted with a 292 cam, this also benefits from some additional advance at idle since the the power band is moved up slightly and the volumetric efficiency is low at idle. 

Simeon,

I just found this thread. I’m currently trying to dial my 123 with my new head job with a IE 292 and a synced 32/36. Do you have a set of timing points that have worked well for you? 
thanks,

stephen