engine and drivetrain Is this a "tii" Exhaust Manifold?

[BeMyWay]

I have an exhaust manifold that I am not sure if it is truly a "tii" component.  I have done a search and I'm still not sure.  We there two types of "tii" exhaust?

Someone has added a port that is capped.

 

So, is this truly a "tii" exhaust?  

 

Also, will it help to improve the performance if installed on a stock motor?

 

I appreciate any help in identifying this header and learning if it can help the performance of a stock 2.0L engine in a 1976 '02?  

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2016 by BeMyWay

[scoyote]

i would guess not a Tii exhaust manifold--dure to the presence of the plugged egr valve---most likely from a 74   and they are quite similar and flow great imho

I'm sure those more knowledgeable will chime in---Brent

[Simeon]

Some fairly scientific conclusions in this post. 

 

 

[TobyB]

It doesn't look like one to me-

they have a bulge on the surface opposite the ports...

 

t

 

[BeMyWay]

11 hours ago, Simeon said:

Some fairly scientific conclusions in this post. 

 

That is a very good write up.  So, it looks like the head on my car, 1976, will flow better than the "tii" head or my posted head? 

Thanks for the link.

 

1 hour ago, TobyB said:

It doesn't look like one to me-

they have a bulge on the surface opposite the ports...

 

t

 

I saw the articles that noted header with the bulge is the "tii" manifold.   BUT, I see people listing the manifold I posted as "tii".  They were right with one thing...it has similar "tii" flow capacity.

Anyway, thanks.

 

 

['76mintgrün'02]

When I was shopping for one, I was sent a photo which shows the same number cast into the underside.

I did not buy that one, but the one I did buy also has that number.

It came off of a '74 tii, when the owner added a header.

Perhaps that number was cast into a variety of manifolds?

I am not sure which bulge Toby is referring to, but mine does not seem to have it either.

I think it is funny that my stock 76 manifold may flow better than a tii unit, once the tubes are removed.  I still plan to swap them out though, because either will work just fine on my old stock-ish engine.  I guess prefer the simple clean look of the tii-style castings.  I also enjoyed grinding the casting flanges off of this one, prior to painting it.  One of these days I will get around to installing it  

Tom

 

Edited October 16, 2016 by '76Mintgrun'02

[avoirdupois]

Per scoyote, the presence of an egr port is a non-starter.

 

Here is a current Ebay seller's description for that part number.  I hasten to add, I have no personal experience with this " '74-only" part. 

 

Quote

'74 2002 Cast Exhaust Manifold for M10 engine This is a good used '74 2002 exhaust manifold that I had media blasted so I could thoroughly inspect the condition of the metal. Since it had no cracks or damages, I painted it with 3 coats of high-temp paint. The '74-only, non-CA, manifold is just like the sought-after tii manifold, in that it flows about the same. In fact, if you don't know the PN, they are difficult to distinguish between. The '74 does have ever-so-slightly smaller openings and a single smog fitting coming out the rear (plugged in this case). Other than these differences, they are the same.

['76mintgrün'02]

fwiw, the one I have was not drilled for the 'smog fitting'.

 

I am not sure whether it would add any 'useful' information, but I had thought of taping the ports shut and filling the manifold with water, which would then be measured... either by weight, or volume.  Then doing the same with my 76 manifold.  More internal volume might suggest better flow... no?  The differences would be insignificant for my needs, but it seems like a fun comparison.

[percy]

1 hour ago, '76Mintgrun'02 said:

More internal volume might suggest better flow... no?  

 

But it seems like a fun comparison.

 

Volume might "suggest" better flow but the science of laminar flow/fluid dynamics is a little more complicated than that.  Header design has always been a series of compromises, including tube diameter, tube length, and of course, exhaust temperature, speed and volume.  A dyno or race track usually determines what works best for a given situation.  As you suggest, In a street driver, the significance may go unnoticed.  Conversely, the measure of an exhaust system's inadequacies are often unnoticed until the discovery of something "more" adequate.   s

Edited October 16, 2016 by percy

[BeMyWay]

I plan to use this manifold to help as I remove the smog equipment.  I am not concern so much about performance, but mostly trying to get the engine bay cleaned up.  I will then see if I can remove the tubes from the stock manifold.

 

[TobyB]

Like many, I have had stacks of exhaust manifolds.  None are bad- at all. 

However, the one manifold I personally took off a tii engine

($500, whole engine fully dressed, on a pallet, from SoCal, in average shape- that was a few years back)

had a manifold different from all the others I had- as I scribbled in the pic below,

it bulged out the side, pretty noticeably.  Once you knew what you were looking at, it

was pretty obvious.

 

74- only?  That's... entertaining.  The 74 manifold was not much different than any other.

The tii manifold has a larger volume, true, but as to flow, you would be lucky to be able to

measure that on a sensitive dyno.

 

Now, some are much better gussetted than others, and far less likely to crack...

 

t

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by TobyB

[02tom]

Here's the webbing Toby's talking about on the early/original tii manifolds.  Don't buy one of these as they are prone to cracking.  This one came on my tii and is cracked.  It's good for a door stop, displayed on a coffee table or a small boat anchor on a calm day.  From what I've seen before, you can't weld cast iron when it's this old; or maybe some people can't...

[mbausa2001]

How about this one? Thanks 

[Conserv]

14 minutes ago, mbausa2001 said:

How about this one? Thanks 

 

I think no. Tii manifolds have no drilling for air injection at their aft ends. There is a cast boss, but it’s simply blank. And, accordingly, they have no air injection nozzles in the four tubes. Yours has both the tail-end input and the injection nozzles.

 

Below are two tii manifolds. They appear to bear casting number:

 

121 142 01 80 1

 

I don’t know what casting number appeared on those early tii manifolds with the crack-prone webbing.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Conserv

[Jimmy]

3 minutes ago, Conserv said:

 

121 142 01 80 1

 

I don’t know what casting number appeared on those early tii manifolds with the crack-prone webbing.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

Actually, you do ?