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Hybrid half shafts help ?


1Eighteen

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Hi,

I am building a set of half shafts, to enable an E21 LSD to go onto my 02.

 

I am using E21 shafts, with E21 inner flanges and 02 outer flanges.  A couple of things are bothering me.

 

I have reassembled the inner side, but the whole assemble is solid and doesn't move freely like you would expect.  Is this normal ? Will it free up once fitted to the axle ?

 

GEDC1786.JPG

 

The other problem, I have encountered, is on the other end, where the 02 flange is mounted.

 

The 02 flanges are fitted with a dished washer on the inside edge, do I disregard this when fitting to the E21 shafts ?  Otherwise there is no way that I'll be able to fit the circlip at the top once fully assembled.  There just isn't enough space, because the splines are shorter length than the 02 shafts.

 

I'm sure there must be a ton of people that have done this mod.  Help please guys, I'm pulling teeth here !!!!

 

GEDC1789.JPG

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Some info, but no washer info.  Leave the belville washer out

Gil by way of Gary.txt

 

Also when you are done and installed, with wheel off the ground and suspension extended so it is limited by the shock, the shaft should have end play, i.e. slides left to right.  If it doesn't the cv joints will pull apart when the wheel comes off the ground for whatever reason.

Edited by jimk

A radiator shop is a good place to take a leak.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing but I know I'm really good at it.

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 Thanks Jim.  Some good info there.

 

It appears that I have a later 10mm LSD and I'm using later E21 shafts and flanges.

 

Are you saying to just not use the washer ?  I assume it's on the 02 shafts to shorten the length of the splines, so more of a spacer really.

 

I can see what you are saying regards the lateral movement of the shafts.  I guess that would be the bearings sitting centrally and correct.  I guess mine, are not at the moment, so no movement at all,  but it's impossible to adjust them using brute force alone, so I wonder if they will right themselves once installed ?  Or maybe some light taps with a small hammer would adjust them into the correct position.  Only thing, is, I think the outer cages are pretty frail !!!  So I would risk damage/distortion.

 

Anyway, I shall go away and have a play. 

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Yeah, the E21 joints should move freely.

Don't hit them very hard- I wonder if something's stuck in them.

I don't remember any real tricks (like asymmetrical cages) or anything.

 

And yes, you can omit the spacer if there is not room for it.

 

t

 

"I learn best through painful, expensive experience, so I feel like I've gotten my money's worth." MattL

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9 hours ago, 1Eighteen said:

 

I am using E21 shafts, with E21 inner flanges and 02 outer flanges.  A couple of things are bothering me.

 

I have reassembled the inner side, but the whole assemble is solid and doesn't move freely like you would expect.  Is this normal ? Will it free up once fitted to the axle ?

 

GEDC1786.JPG

 

 

 

Since you did not mention it, I will presume you working with used parts.  I will also presume that the used joint or joints had a smooth action when flexed-twisted by hand.  Even if the used joints demonstrated smooth and unencumbered movement, it is still possible that the moving parts developed wear patterns so that they should be marked and kept in a particular order.  There are two schools of thought regarding well worn parts.  One is to avoid mismatching balls and groove/sockets.  The other to deliberately rotate them, like tires, to maximize usefulness and reliability.  In the case of cv joints on most rear drive axles, the joints are very stout and can handle significant abuse.  In other words, adhering to either school of thought may not make much of a difference in the long run - if everything is kept well greased.  Of course, this is an over generalization, since joints can be damaged (e.g., joints that have been run dry and overheated, exposed to dirt/sand or submerged in water) and [pre-existing] wear is a relative term.  Even assuming your joints have seen significant use but were not damaged, there is an extra good chance that they are serviceable for many years to come.  (Besides, if and when a joint exhibits signs of wear, it generally provides plenty or audible notice.)

 

There are many ways to clean and reassemble cv joints.  Many prefer to clean the parts and carefully examine for obvious signs of wear and overheating (e.g., bluing).  It is even possible to compare each ball bearing's measurement, so that any significant variation - possibly indicates a worn race or socket.  And then there is examination of the various grooves/sockets/races/carriers unto which the balls roll.   If the time is available, it is often a good idea to assemble a used joint - dry - to feel for smooth action.  Naturally, there may be some resistance without grease, but the action should still be smooth.  Even if this practice was skipped, a greased joint can be tight and offer resistance, but it should still be smooth when flexed.  You seem to be describing something other than smooth and fluid - suggesting something is amiss.  If the car is near the end of its life, and longevity and reliability are not a concern, it is quite likely that the joint can be used as-is and will bed in.  However, if you have the opportunity, reexamine any suspect joint and, if necessary, disassemble and reassemble so that the joints produce a smooth flexible and fluid movement.  Again, a certain amount of resistance for a joint is normal, not unlike a snug wheel bearing or a "taut" new u-joint.  Roughness and lack of free movement is not the same thing though.

 

 

 

 

BMW-spare-parts-in-US-CV-Joints.jpg

 

 

 

393614_x800.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Wear, wear and wear.

 

637074.jpg

 

 

 

cvd1.jpg

 

 

 

groovycvjoint.jpg~original

Edited by avoirdupois
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Hey, thanks for all that info Avoirdupoir.  Unfortunately, I am not so meticulous as to keep the correct races and bearings for each flange !!  I did separate the 02 ones from the E21 ones though. 

 

I should also say, that yes these are used parts, of which I have no prior knowledge and the whole car is being restored, so won't be at the end of life.

 

There was no significant wear, or signs of damage, so I assumed they would go back ok.

 

My cleaning routine, was degreasant, followed by brake cleaner, followed by ahem !!!  parts washer - AKA - dishwasher...shhh.  She was out.

 

Could this have caused my problems.  I tried the 02 one earlier and it's pretty much the same.

 

GEDC1785.JPG

Edited by 1Eighteen
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1 hour ago, 1Eighteen said:

There was no significant wear, or signs of damage, so I assumed they would go back ok.

 

 

 

Only problem with mixing the dishwasher and ferrous materials is the potential for rust.  Also not sure how various dishwashing detergents might react with metals without a high chromium content.  (For example, some compounds can etch aluminum.)  Machinists do use caustic soda baths for their hot tanks, but it is not recommended for all mental components.  In any event, your plumbing may not be the same, but I doubt that your cleaning method had any significant deleterious effect on the joints.

 

Again, if there is significant interference with free movement, it behooves you to take it apart and reassemble.  I can't explain it, but there are evidently ways to misassemble the components so that they work together, albeit not smoothly.  Hence, one of the reasons for dry fitting everything - when in doubt.  

 

Four out of five chiropractors would readjust.  :P

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