other Is this well-bought at $14k?

[Gulfster]

Hi,

 

Buying this 1974 rally race conversion next week. My goal is to get it registered for joy rides and use as a track toy. 

 

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/5710407257.html

 

Would like to keep it true to form given its cool race history (1st/2nd place finish pikes peak vintage class).

 

I find it hard to price 2002's, especially when modified. I lack experience with mechanicals but have the finances, access to mechanics, passion and willingness.

 

I'll probably wind up buying it even if I'm told it's too expensive. I was bit hard.

 

But I'd appreciate some guidance. Is it worth $14k? (Talked him down from 14.5)

 

Thanks,

Adam

[Fatherof3]

This doesn't answer your question but if this car scratches your itch for one in a way that others haven't and you plan to keep it long term the current fair market valve isn't so important.

 

Look more at how long is your list of changes you would make to this car.

[TobyB]

Probably a fair price.

 

Caveats:

Rust.  Especially in rockers.

Cage.  DOM or it's a walk-a-way.  Have an SCCA tech look at it.

 

WTF did they do with that carb?  That's full hillbilly, that is.  It

would make me look a lot closer at cage attachments, the brake

plumbing snaggle, and so on.  I'd try it, but it's not starting from a place of sound fuel- flow theory.

Nothing wrong with a Holley... on a wet manifold...

 

Look carefully, unless $14k is just spending money.

 

edit, I just read all the verbiage, and that's a Pike's car, maybe lapping, and... hmmm.  The mods make

it less than ideal for most other sanctions.  I don't know why an efi rig wouldn't altitude compensate,

but then 200bhp out of 11:1 at 12000'...

Byron will know, but a turbo head wouldn't be my starting place for n/a...  at 12000...

 

If it's your thing, I still think it's worth it if it's a solid, well- done car.

 

t

Edited August 25, 2016 by TobyB

[Simeon]

It will take a lot of work toget that registered again. Might not be fun to drive on the road either. As a race car, it looks good. 

[jrkoupe]

a car like this needs an owner that wants THIS type of car....

 

and if u dont  wrench it yourself it will be a hassle...it will need alot of tinkering I guess....

 

its got some nice bits.....

 

it cost me just 2k for those rear flares to be instlld!!!

 

 

anyhew.....14k?.....if its perfect it for ya!..if not?..move on

[AceAndrew]

That particular car is well put together and has a neat history.  I remember sending over a host of bits for it prior to the first run. However, as Joel said ... it takes a particular buyer.

[Gulfster]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I'm going to go for it. I still need to see the car in person and if it shows rust or corrosion or doesn't run smoothly I'll back out. But the build had some reputable people involved and the parts list is impressive. I think the inherent value is there. 

 

I am a vaguely mechanical guy with very little experience wrenching but a long history with classic cars (father was a collector). 

 

What can I say, this thing speaks to me. I wouldn't do too much to it, I like it for what it is.

 

-Install exhaust (this thing is LOUD, seller sent a video)

-I would replace the hood scoop with something a little more subtle. 

-Any maintenance/tuning needed (return to optimized for sea level?)

 

I would put in the work to get it registered. If it proves untenable I guess I have an excuse to get to a track as much as possible. 

 

I would feel okay spending another $10-15k on the thing to get it right. 

 

Anyone have any other feedback, please provide! I need all the help I can get...

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by Gulfster

[Gulfster]

This might be the first of many questions to expose the vastness of my ignorance, but can this car run on regular gas or be tuned to accept regular gas? How difficult would that be?

 

Buildsheet states:

 

"Compression ratio over 11:1 - 105+ Octane fuel ONLY - we ran 110 on The Mountain"

 

Does this mean that 11:1 compression needs 105 octane, or that the engine will only run on 105+ octane, period? 

 

 

[Preyupy]

I'm not sure about that intake set up, it might make ok power at full throttle and above 3000 rpm but I really wonder what it will be like to "drive".  11:1 compression ratio shouldn't need 105 octane but I'm sure you will have trouble with 93 octane pump gas.  Depending on your tune up you might be able to back the timing off and survive with a of race and street fuel but you need to be careful, if you let it detonate you can easily cause serious damage.  I don't know why they put a 245 OD box in it for the hill climb, I'm sure they would never get it into 5th gear on the mountain and gears 1-4 are exactly the same as the 4 speed box.  It does sound like it might help on the mountain if it was a Close Ratio 5 speed.  They don't give any specs on the camshaft or head porting but 200hp at the crankshaft it seriously optimistic for that set up.  They would have to show me a dyno sheet to believe more than 160hp.  They might turn it to 8000 rpm but I'm sure it is not making any HP up there (I'll bet max HP is somewhere around 7000-7200 with max torque at 4500-5000).  They talk about running it to 8000-8500 rpm, with a tachometer that only goes to 7000? "Removing the Hood Scoop" will mean you will have to completely change the carburetor and Manifold because it's not a "Scoop" it is a "Bulge" to clear the carburetor.  The fabrication work looks good but I question some of the choices, I'm sure the cage is strong and safe but the plumbing right above your knees looks like a problem if you ever need to use that cage. Why would you mount the brake fluid reservoirs at eye level right in front of the driver and put the gauges down where you have to look around your right arm to see them? 

 

The body looks nicely done, and if there is little or no rust you would be hard pressed to find a body, install a cage, fender flairs and paint it for $14k  so the rest of the running gear is just about a no cost deal.  If you are looking for a track toy (putting it on the street is going to be a big deal unless you are willing to forgo ALL comfort)  this looks like it might be a reasonable starting point for the $$$   

[Arizona02]

From the craigslist ad "The carb will make up to 220 hp." which I would interpret for any engine it is used on that is capable of making that , not saying this engine produces that number.

[zinz]

The steering box appears to have no more adjustment.  And why no camber plates?

 

Ed

[TobyB]

Quote

doesn't run smoothly

 

I'd personally be shocked if it did- it's supposedly meant to climb hills with only 78% of sea level atmosphere.  Don't let that frighten you-

just look at the motor carefully (leakdown and compression by a shop, at this point, because I don't know how much you can trust, here)

If you have another 10k comfort level and the lump's solid, you can change a LOT and still be a happy camper.

 

Quote

 And why no camber plates?

Ed nailed it- at this point, it should have 3-4 degrees negative, somehow.  Might, and not do it with plates- but, then how?

 

Again, if it's very solid and the bodywork's done well and the welding looks better than BMW could do and you LOVE it when you see it and crawl through it thoroughly, why not? 

 

t

 

[2002Scoob]

Oh boy. This thing looks like loads of fun!

 

I'm the kinda' guy that is horribly attracted to cars of this nature...The carb setup/hood bulge isn't to my tastes, but if I were in your shoes I'd be very tempted to pull the trigger. Especially if I knew I had another 10 I'm happy and comfortable throwing at it. With that coin, you could easily steer the build into any direction you wanted- Full on track-toy, or semi-livable street beast. 

 

All the above is great advice, so heed it well. 

[LikeStig]

Just my two cents....

 

I like that the drip rail and beltline chrome is all there, flares look good, and the wheels are tasteful but I would want to see the US bumper holes patched front and rear. I'd also respray the trunk, interior and maybe engine bay to match the body color. Nothing wrong with the way they have the fuel cell mounted, but I'd rather cut out the spare tire well and mount the cell lower and centered in the trunk. Get a second hand hood and put a proper intake/carb on there and now this car is looking more put together and less odd duck. With the current diff setup this could be a fun Autocross car.

 

As others have said it all depends on what you are looking for. I think asking price is reasonable considering the car is built to homoligation for a race series, but this car for sale here on the FAQ (linked below) has been a little more thoughtfully built with the comments above and is about right on the asking price of this car. All depends on what you want. I'd take a good look at the floorpan repairs from inside and underneath the car, inspect any area which has been painted black for hidden issues, inspect the doors thoroughly for rust at the seams, inspect as much of the bottom of the car and wheel wells as you can, inquire why the rear parcel shelf has been replaced with aluminum and also investigate why the steering box is coated in oil.

 

It doesn't look like a bad car, 99% of the go fast parts are there. I don't know what the costs were for the engine build but I would guess that it's the best value on the car. I don't really like cutting corners on project cars and would be inclined to negotiate based on the things I noted above, if I were buying it I'd be wanting to pay $12k for it, because if I fixed the things I noted above that would put me about break even once I was done with it. If you like it the way it is, go buy it because this thing is probably a hoot! Just be aware these types of 02's tend to sit on the market a while because people who want something like this usually build it themselves.

 

[dang]

21 hours ago, TobyB said:

Cage.  DOM or it's a walk-a-way.  Have an SCCA tech look at it.

 

Its been awhile since I raced but would Pike's Peak tech/regulations check for DOM?