72_02

Another Dizzy question.. JFUR 4 0231 115 071

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Sorry, I have tried searching, I cant find my dizzy any where, nor can I find an electronic points system for it.. yet. I have been looking at the hot spark however cant match up their numbers with mine.

 

I've recently done the gasket on the dizzy housing and o-ring, and a tappet adjustment. Dizzy is back in and car runs, but there is a dead spot between 2-3k and just about nada after 4k when I drive, I have to shift to 4th to get any more power!

 

It's coming along nicely but.. lot's of noise and no go!

 

I know I need to do timing - 1st question, can I use a cheap light from Sears? I have marked the ball on my fly wheel.

 

2nd question - the car is a 72 roundie with a vacuum JFUR4 Bosch ending in 017. Is this not the standard dizzy?

 

 

I am hoping once sorted I'll have a better runner. Then I can figure out why I have extra short spark plugs!!

 

 

 

 

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Hard to say what's going on since your basic timing is likely off.  If it's the dizzy, it might be that your mech advance spring/weights assembly is worn or kaput, or your vacuum doesn't suck enough/correctly if you're not seeing any advance.  Yeah, any timing light will help - to check the advance and to dial in the correct timing, using the ball or otherwise.

 

According to Bosch archives, that dizzy 0 231 115 071 shows as being on non-USA 2002s manufactured May thru August 1971.  USA Export 2002s in that same May thru August 1971 mfg date range got the 0 231 115 081, which was identical to the 071 except for a slight increase in max advance from the vacuum can.

 

That dizzy might be original/correct for your car, if it's a non-USA model (Canada-car?, given you're in NY), and it was a very early 72 build (August/Sept) where they might have used up last of the 071s before switching to the next part.  (Non-USA 2002s manufactured starting 9/71 used the 0 231 180 005, and USA Export 2002s next got the near-identical 0 231 180 003 at that time.  Both these replacements, targeted for the 72 model year, had higher-output vacuum advance units than their predecessors, likely matched to other changes/improvements brought to the motor.)

 

 

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3 hours ago, 72_02 said:

Then I can figure out why I have extra short spark plugs!!

It might be a good idea to buy some NGK BP6ES, or BP5ES plugs.

I am using the 6s currently, which are just a little cooler than the 5s.

NGK explains their ratings here:

http://www.ngk.com.au/spark-plugs/technical-information/heat-range-explanation

Check and make sure the plug gaps are set to .024.

You don't need plugs with built in resistance.  (they have an R in the model number)

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12 hours ago, visionaut said:

Hard to say what's going on since your basic timing is likely off.  If it's the dizzy, it might be that your mech advance spring/weights assembly is worn or kaput, or your vacuum doesn't suck enough/correctly if you're not seeing any advance.  Yeah, any timing light will help - to check the advance and to dial in the correct timing, using the ball or otherwise.

 

According to Bosch archives, that dizzy 0 231 115 071 shows as being on non-USA 2002s manufactured May thru August 1971.  USA Export 2002s in that same May thru August 1971 mfg date range got the 0 231 115 081, which was identical to the 071 except for a slight increase in max advance from the vacuum can.

 

That dizzy might be original/correct for your car, if it's a non-USA model (Canada-car?, given you're in NY), and it was a very early 72 build (August/Sept) where they might have used up last of the 071s before switching to the next part.  (Non-USA 2002s manufactured starting 9/71 used the 0 231 180 005, and USA Export 2002s next got the near-identical 0 231 180 003 at that time.  Both these replacements, targeted for the 72 model year, had higher-output vacuum advance units than their predecessors, likely matched to other changes/improvements brought to the motor.)

 

 

 

Ah man, thank you for the help. I ordered a pertronix, and a timing light.

 

hoping this will fix the issues im having at least with timing, then ill see how the pertronix goes.

 

Im going to look into the vin number! Its definitely an oddball car. Im sure its been pieced together the engine number doesnt match the vin either.

 

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12 hours ago, '76Mintgrun'02 said:

It might be a good idea to buy some NGK BP6ES, or BP5ES plugs.

I am using the 6s currently, which are just a little cooler than the 5s.

NGK explains their ratings here:

http://www.ngk.com.au/spark-plugs/technical-information/heat-range-explanation

Check and make sure the plug gaps are set to .024.

You don't need plugs with built in resistance.  (they have an R in the model number)

Will do. I ordered a bosch copper plug which was much longer than what came out.

ill look into the cooler plug.

 

A longer plug is okay in that head? I was worried it was going to hit inside the head causing a huge mess.

 

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1 hour ago, 72_02 said:

A longer plug is okay in that head?

I'm glad you asked.  I am able to provide some photos, since I recently put plugs in this head.

004.JPG

These are the longer style (Bosch).

002.JPG003.JPG

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Thank is a huge help! Thank you. Excellent photos. Looks very clean. 

Edited by 72_02

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Update and the car is better. Starting and 2-3k is smooth after timing done using BB at 1400rpm.

 

Car pulls pretty well, can even hear a tire squeal into 2nd gear but still nothing after about 4000 rpm especially in 4th gear. On the highway once I hit 65mph, it dies, comes back to life, and all over again. I sort of limp along in the slow lane and hope people understand it's an old car.. but I know it's better than that!

 

Could it be my dizzy, or coil? I have a 3 ohm resistor, and a pertronix hooked up on the coil side of the resistor (closer to firewall) which is the correct wiring.

 

Carb > dizzy vacuum pipe was also only recently connected to the vacuum on the carb... it was previously on the intake manifold. (made all the difference to the 2-3k dead spot actually).

 

Are there any other diagnostics I can do? Are springs inside the dizzy still an issue if I have an electronic point system? Is it possible the rotor is bouncing around since it's so old?

 

Was about to buy a blue coil to see if it helps.. The resistor and coil get fairly hot. But I should really measure them with a digital meter before chucking.

 

Before I think it's fuel, (filter is perfectly clean), should I try a refurbished dizzy? I found Bosch 071's on A1 auto for $150 bucks "rebuilt".

 

 

 

Many thanks.

Edited by 72_02

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Did you have the vacuum pod disconnected when setting the timing?

 

You say a 3 ohm resistor, but the total resistance wants to be 3 ohms, typically that means a coil with 1.8 ohms and a resistor at 1.2 ohms, or vice versa... I forget.

 

If you do get a 3 ohm blue coil, you will want to remove the resistor.

 

It seems the way these distributors tend to wear is to develop vertical play in the shaft and this can be measured by pulling the distributor out and using a feeler gauge between the gear and the distributor body.

 

The springs in the mechanical advance assembly are still being used with the Pertronix.  That mechanism can get pretty gunky with dried up old oil, if it is not cleaned and lubed every so often.  Usually they do not see much attention over the years.

 

As for the rotor 'bouncing around' you can judge this based on the stability of the bb under the timing light.  If the distributor is working well, the bb should be steady.  If it is bouncing around, it probably needs to be pulled apart and cleaned/lubed/shimmed.  Buckeye posted a how to in the articles section.

 

A wise member here often points out that there can be problems if you stack up ignition parts with resistance built in.  Rotors seem to come with either 5 ohms, or 1 ohm of resistance and there is often a number on them to tell you which you have.  LIkewise plug wires are offered with built in resistance.  Bosch wires are not what they used to be.  I am happy with my Kingsborne set.  I know you replaced your plugs and hopefully there is not an R in their part number.  Apparently the added resistance shows up more at higher rpm... though this may have nothing to do with your problem.

 

I am all for improving the ignition side of things and would keep on that, but it could still be a fuel starvation issue.  THere is often a little filter behind the fuel input nipple on the Weber.  There is also a screen on the pickup in the trunk that can get dirty.  If you open up the fuel sender, I have read that it is a good idea to have a new o-ring on hand, since it can be tough to get it to reseal with the old one.  Have you checked to see that the fuel lines in the trunk are fresh and tight?  

 

Getting rid of the flat spot is definitely a step in the right direction. 

I am sure you will be revving it to redline before you know it.

 

TOm

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Thanks, Tom. This is amazing!

 

the BB jumps about half the length of the flywheel inspection hole, my guess is i need to rebuild the dizzy.

 

think ill get a spare and send it off.

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