body and interior Question regarding modifying the nose

[rstclark]

My 2002 uses an IE aftermarket radiator with an electric fan  but no little red engine fan. 

This works well in most cases but the car starts to heat up in stop and go traffic and at long stop lights. It has an AC condenser  in front of the radiator probably restricting air flow a little from the electric fan

I really want to add the original engine fan and maybe the fan shroud to make this car comfortable to drive in all situations.

To get clearance it seems the radiator needs to move forward about 1 inch

My thought is to cut the nose ridge out to get the distance I need, and cut two slots to let the radiator mounting fins slip in front of the nose instead of the back.

 

The question is should I cut the nose ?  The ridge certainly adds strength and rigidity.  Will cutting it weaken the nose too much ?  If anyone has done this please advise

Also is there a clean way to add structure back after a cut like this ?

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts

[jrhone]

simple fix...get a more powerful fan.  I have been in 120 degree heat and temp gauge never went over halfway while in stop and go traffic.  No need to reinvent the wheel and add lots of extra stuff like a dual fan system.  Electric fans when done right cool cars very well.  Sounds like either your fan is inadequate and not pushing enough air of maybe the radiator is not efficient enough.  I'd look into fixing the problem there before adding more things to help your weak cooling system.  

[tzei]

+1 what jrhone said

 

And then the stupid q: is fan + & - connected right way?

[rstclark]

Yes the fan runs correctly ( pushing from the front)but it is not mounted right on the radiator because there is not enough room to stack the AC condenser and the fan. The fan is mounted on the front upright braces tilting slightly forward at the top. The ones the hood attaches to

the fan is a large unit supplied with  the Ireland Engineering aluminium radiator Without looking at the details I suspect it is quite powerful If there are better fan options I would like like to know

 

Still wondering about my original question regarding cutting  the nose though

[tzei]

38 minutes ago, rstclark said:

it is not mounted right on the radiator

This is what you need to correct. Don't cut it just yet - too nice paint!

[jrhone]

yes, the LAST thing I would do is cut the car to move the radiator back to add a regular fan AND an electric fan...

 

So here are a few options.  Your car is not normal.  02s using electric fans are usually COOLER than the stock fan.  Thats one of the main reasons to ditch the stock fan so they have a more modern cooling experience.  So yours is not operating correctly.  I would ask what others have done with an electric fan and AC.  Then see if its your setup thats at fault.  Then check the specs of your fan.  Whats the CFM its pushing?  If its a powerful enough fan, then maybe its not working at its max?  Check that out.  I have a SPAL fan which makes a lot of compact high output pusher fans.  Like I said, my car runs nice and cool.  No issues with running hot at idle even in 120 degree heat.  If you want to add the stock fan then maybe ditch the electric fan and get a radiator that will allow the stock fan and shroud.  That will get you back to stock and should run cool.  

 

Does the fan come on early enough when it starts to warm up?  If not then maybe its the temp switch.  Might need to go down to a lower temp switch so that fan comes on quicker.  

 

Another question. Do you have just one fan for the radiator AND AC condenser?  

 

About your question...people have cut the nose area for M20 conversions.  So it doesn't seem like its structural.  You may need some bracing or reinforcements though.  

 

I don't think you are reinventing the wheel here, so I would think there is a solution to your problem WITHOUT cutting the nose of your car.  

[rstclark]

I really don't want to cut the nose if it is avoidable. 

Maybe my set up is wrong if others have cool running cars using only an electric fan.

 

My set up is only one 12 inch fan.   IE doesn't state the CFM so potentially it  could be upgraded to push more air.  The design of it doesn't look as sophisticated as a SPAL fan

Perhaps a slightly smaller fan or one with a smaller frame could be tilted straight up and mounted directly on the face of the AC condenser and the radiator  ( a three piece sandwich of sorts )

The direct mounting would be more efficient it seems.

 

The car runs at the 3 o'clock position when driving and the temp switch comes on slightly below the 3 o'clock  position.   In stop and go traffic or at a stop,  the temp rises to the edge of the red with the fan running.   By comparison, my other  car , a stock 74,  runs at about the 2 o'clock position all the time which I think is normal.

 

I have ordered a new 171 degree thermostat even though I don't think that really makes any difference.

 

Going to do a little more research on the best fan possible.

 

Rob Siegel says for air conditioning  you should have a fan that will suck dogs off the sidewalk  Does anyone know what model that is ?? 

 

[jrhone]

My car runs normally at the 4 o'Clock position.  On hot days or sitting and idling its at 3 or maybe a tad higher.  Never anywhere close to the red.  

 

Irelands website says the 12" fan is 1250 CFM and they have a 14" thats 2000 CFM.  My Spal looks like its about 1300.  

[rstclark]

Thanks I feel very encouraged by your suggestions

I just ordered a 2000 CFM 12 inch fan and I'm going to try and mount it right on the condenser/radiator

If this works I will be elated

[ray_]

I assume your a/c works, right?

 

You might spray water through the condenser fins in case there's 40 years of bugs impeding air flow.

 

Cheers,

[rstclark]

It's a brand new system with a more efficient compressor

It is not completely connected and working since the cooling isn't sorted out yet

[rstclark]

OK  I'm  seriously elated   and the nose has been spared any ugly cutting

This afternoon I removed the existing 1250 cfm fan from the upright braces and mounted it directly on the AC condenser and radiator.  no other changes were made and the difference was remarkable

The fan turns on at the 3 o'clock position and only rises slightly above the 3 o'clock position  after warming up and then Idling in the garage for 20 minutes. The fan holds the temp in check  WOW

My set up was wrong no doubt about it.. The lesson here is to mount the fan directly on the radiator or condenser if you have one .The efficiency of the air flow is significantly better

 

I still plan on using the 2000 cfm fan when it arrives along with the new 171 degree thermostat just to see what happens.

 It should increase the cooling capacity for the eventual hook up of the air conditioner

 

Big thanks to Jrohne and TZEI for being insistent that the cooling could be fixed  --  without cutting the nose 

[jrhone]

Glad that worked out!!  I always say address the root of the problem not the symptom. Keep us posted with the other things and let us know how it works.