engine and drivetrain 1600 - Related Questions

[danco_]

Hey guys, I have a few questions regarding the 1600 and it's parts, as I'm running into things I'm not quite sure how to resolve.

 

1. Is there a guibo upgrade or replacement for the early three-guibo driveshaft? My front-most guibo (between the trans and driveshaft) looks really dry and should be replaced. I found a source to replace this particular piece, but it's nearly $200 for the one guibo. Is there a newer part that has the correct dimensions and will work? 

Link: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=2511-EUR-06-1968-114-BMW-1600&diagId=26_0134

Each of the three guibo units are the same. If you wanted to rebuild this telescopic driveshaft, you would spend minimum $600 in rubber guibos alone. That seems very excessive. 

 

 

2. All the 1600s from 1966-1968 have had two or three variations of brake boosters, brake master cylinders, and brake fluid reservoirs. My own car has this particular set up: 

An awkward system, but it is original and will stay in its current configuration. If you look close to the driver's side corner in the engine bay, you will notice an extra tab where something else screws into...almost like another reservoir would go there. here is another photo that better illustrates the tab welded onto the inner fender: 

 

 

So now I'm wondering, what could I be missing? What would that extra reservoir go to? The clutch is a mechanical unit, and does not use hydraulic fluid, so now I'm stumped. 

 

Here is an archived photo of an early 2002, probably 1968. Note that this photo came from an archived file for the "BMW 2002". This may also be an early 1600.

https://revslib.stanford.edu/catalog/xy502np0119

You can see that this car uses the tabs on the inner fender, but has the early style booster and MC system in place.

 

 

And to confuse me even more, I went to check on another early 1600 today (VIN: 1600316) and took note of the engine bay. This particular 1600 is ugly in all ways, including the engine bay. The head is a 1.8 head, the engine vin doesn't match, but oddly, it has the same brake booster/MC/reservoir that my own car has, despite it being a much earlier production 1600. It's likely that this car has been modified and newer parts replaced the old parts, etc. But notice the remote reservoir in the corner. It even has the correct mounting hardware in place. I wasn't able to verify where the line was going to, but it definitely looked like hydraulic fluid. 

 

So now I'm wondering if the welded tab was a provision for a system my 1600 needs but no longer possesses, or was it added as part of the manufacturing process but had no real use (as is the case for some cars - BMW phased in or out new/old tech all the time).

 

As I continued to search deeper, I came across Brian Dooley's early 1969 1600 that recently sold. His car was manufactured in early 69 no more than four months after mine was manufactured (November of 68), which meant that DOT mandated side markers, headrests, while BMW also made various changes to models, sometimes mid-year which is common. But notice his master cylinder set up - it's consistent with 2002s of the later years.

 

So his car is inconsistent with mine.

 

 

What say you? Should something be mounted to the inner fender? The provisions are there. 

 

 

-Ryan

 

Edited June 23, 2016 by danco_

[winstontj]

Just a guess because I know very little about the early cars:

 

BMW was notorious for being frugal and using leftovers where they didn't belong (parts, paint, you name it...). To further complicate things, I have a (Germany) euro spec '76 that was sold NEW at the dealer in 1977 which was retrofitted at the dealer with an e21 fuel injection system. It was sold new, with a standard warranty, etc. They did all kinds of things back then. 

 

If you are certain that your car was not modified from what it was when it rolled off the line, I'd venture a guess and say that the side bracket was probably for whatever the ti/tii equivalent was back then so they could fit a bigger intake/air filter. Or perhaps from your photos very early cars had clutch slave cyl reservoirs as well as brake and your car was late enough they had done away with it by then?

 

There are a few people here that should be able to give you a reply better than my guess --but are you 100% certain that your car had not been tampered with/modified before you started restoring it? 

 

I'm jealous seeing so many others in the rebuild phase. I'm still in the take apart/destruction phase of my '70... 

[arminyack]

The guibo: I bought mine off ebay; fairly inexpensive $40...

 

Now that extra resevoir.....my car used that bracket for the brake fluid resevoir only,  originally I had a mechanical clutch and the remote brake booster....I have none of that linkage business for the brake booster that all 02's have.  

 

I think your 1600 is a bit later than mine ( mine was manufactured in feb. 1968), and that bracket is just a throwback from an earlier version of the car...maybe yours was built at cross over point? Perhaps complete body shells were already completed, and your car got a shell with ano obsolete bracket?

 

Is your car mech. Clutch or hydraulic?

 

Edited June 23, 2016 by arminyack

[Conserv]

Ryan,

 

I'm with arminyack on the subject of the un-used brake fluid reservoir bracket.  It's been 40+ years since I had my '67 (6-volt) but I recall a single brake fluid reservoir, hanging off the left inner fender, supported by such a bracket in the same location as your un-used bracket.  The booster, of course, was different, longer than yours and more purely cylindrical.  So either the original-style reservoir bracket remained in production after BMW upgraded/modernized the brake system or....a prior owner upgraded/modernized your car's brake system.

 

Could U.S. regulations have mandated a change while Euro-spec cars retained the old system, thus requiring retention of the "old-style" reservoir bracket?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2016 by Conserv

[ray_]

Could that 2nd reservoir be for clutch hydraulics? Is there a provision for that, and the brake reservoir didn't accommodate?

 

Earliest cars had mechanical clutch linkage though...

 

Cheers,

[tups]

The bracket is where the single round brake fluid reservoir goes in my 1967 boosterless 1600 with mechanical clutch.

As far as the giubo's go - you're screwed. It is the reason why I decided to replace my propshaft and propshaft coupling with a later 8-bolt u-joint one ... which eliminates 2 of the giubos. uckily the rear giubo is in good condition. Walloth and Nesch have them, but as you noticed- at a very, very steep price.

[arminyack]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-1600-2-Ti-New-Propeller-Shaft-Flex-Disc-/281168644448?hash=item4176f50960:m:m5UcORDgdmJu-c45vSpb8_A&vxp=mtr

 

 

That's what I put in my car..(same seller).but it was $44 when I got them! Its pretty damn cheap now...by all outwards appearances it looks fine, and has about 1K miles on my car with no signs of coming apart. He's using some stock photo he has of a guibo. The one I got was black. 

Still, at $15....buyer beware!

[north1602]

Hi Ryan

pic of my Aug 1969 - 1600 (#1569993).   It has the single round brake fluid reservoir that mounts on the fender tab.   (No reservoirs on the master)

 

my propshaft is also a single unit with one U-joint in the middle and 4 bolt flanges on either end.  

 

My model year must be the style changeover.    Also 12 Volt.   

 

[arminyack]

This resevoir tab is mounted forward of the strut tower....where as he and I have it behind it.

[danco_]

I think you guys are right. It was likely a shell built for a previous era 1600, but fitted with "upgraded" gear.

 

 

Andy, I'm buying that guibo. I'll let you know what happens.

 

 

North1602, If your car is a 69 1600, looks like they already introduced the dual-line calipers. I had a 1971 1600 that also had dual line calipers. As far as I know, all US 1600s came with mechanical clutch systems. 

 

 

Thanks again guys.

 

 

 

 

[tahoedon]

On my 1600 I have the same bracket. It was used for the brake fluid reservoir. It did not have the power assist bracket that is on your car. My car had the remote booster and had a tandem master cylinder mounted on the pedal box. The brake lines left the m/c and went to a fitting where the brake light switch was mounted and it also had a sliding piece in it which would move to one end or the other if one of the m/c pistons was leaking. So if the pressure wasn't the same on both lines the slider would push a plunger on this fitting and trip the hazard light on the instrument panel. If the slider was centered the instrument light would illuminate when the button next to it was pushed. Also the remote booster only operated on the front disc brakes. The rears had no power assist, so the rear wheel cylinders were sized accordingly. Also if you are spending the money to replace all the guibos be sure to check the centering pin between the two halves. I never realized the importance of this until it was too late. It was not possible to balance it properly if this was worn and the shop I took it too said they could not repair it. My car was probably manufactured in Feb-Mar 1968, vin #1562947, original owner, but poor memory.

[tahoedon]

Looking at the pictures a little more closely I don't think that booster bracket and master cylinder is original to that car. What is the vin #? My car is similar to arminyack's. We both had the remote booster, master cylinder mounted to the pedal box and the reservoir mounted closer to the firewall like yours . There is also a hose clamp tack welded to the body near that bracket which helped route the brake hoses down to the master cylinder at the pedal box. If the setup in yours was original I think your car would have the master cylinder mounting bracket more forward like some of your other pictures show on other cars. This would be a more direct path for the brake hoses to the master cylinder mounted in front of the booster. But, maybe yours was in the middle of the changeover.

[danco_]

3 hours ago, tahoedon said:

Looking at the pictures a little more closely I don't think that booster bracket and master cylinder is original to that car. What is the vin #? My car is similar to arminyack's. We both had the remote booster, master cylinder mounted to the pedal box and the reservoir mounted closer to the firewall like yours . There is also a hose clamp tack welded to the body near that bracket which helped route the brake hoses down to the master cylinder at the pedal box. If the setup in yours was original I think your car would have the master cylinder mounting bracket more forward like some of your other pictures show on other cars. This would be a more direct path for the brake hoses to the master cylinder mounted in front of the booster. But, maybe yours was in the middle of the changeover.

Don,

 

According to BMW Archives,

The BMW 1600 US VIN 1567199 was manufactured on November 23rd, 1968 and delivered on December 03rd, 1968 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Florida, paint code 066.

 

 

I also have the hose clamps welded to the inner fender. You can see two clamps in my engine bay (second photo in my first post). I wasn't sure what they were for, still am not, actually. 

 

 

-Ryan

[dasfrogger]

I totally agree about that bracket. It was intended for an early fluid reservoir. I thought they stopped using this system by the 68 model year, but i think stranger things have happened with 02 production.

 

Photos from my '66

 

Same on my 67

 

I'm interested to find out your experience with that ebay guibo. My 66 retains the 3 guibo system, and I had to bite the bullet and pay for one already.