Ensign

Is it a '72 or '73 tii?

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This morning I had a chance to quickly inspect a "1973" tii that may be available for sale. I noticed that it had the "fasten seat belt" sign on top of the dash that I understand is consistent with the 1973+ models, but I also noticed that it did NOT have the low, pointed over-riders on the front bumper that I understand is NOT consistent with 1973 models.

I recorded the VIN (2760851) and e-mailed the BMW Archive Group when I got home and they confirmed that the manufacture date was January 28, 1972. (That date is definitely not consistent with a 1973 model.) I have read that some unsold vehicles manufactured late in one year were sometimes "re-titled" and given the next model year, but a January manufacture date does not fit into this category.

Should I simply assume that the dash was replaced with one from a later model? I think it was a 1-piece unit and did not have any cracks (a plus).

I look forward to your input.

 

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My Tii (2760321) has a build date of 12/28/71, and has the fasten seat belt sign on top of the dash.

 

I am pretty sure yours is a US 1972 model. Mine is.

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On June 17, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Ensign said:

This morning I had a chance to quickly inspect a "1973" tii that may be available for sale. I noticed that it had the "fasten seat belt" sign on top of the dash that I understand is consistent with the 1973+ models, but I also noticed that it did NOT have the low, pointed over-riders on the front bumper that I understand is NOT consistent with 1973 models.

I recorded the VIN (2760851) and e-mailed the BMW Archive Group when I got home and they confirmed that the manufacture date was January 28, 1972. (That date is definitely not consistent with a 1973 model.) I have read that some unsold vehicles manufactured late in one year were sometimes "re-titled" and given the next model year, but a January manufacture date does not fit into this category.

Should I simply assume that the dash was replaced with one from a later model? I think it was a 1-piece unit and did not have any cracks (a plus).

I look forward to your input.

 

 

The VIN rules!  Much is typically changed over 44 years.

 

It's a 1972 model.  Any U.S.-spec tii manufactured before September 1972 is a 1972 model.   I believe that U.S. 1972 tii production actually began in mid-October 1971, which is a late start for the typical model year.  The corresponding 1972 model VIN's run from 2760001 through 2762629. BMW's U.S. model years, consistent with most other manufacturers, generally ran from September through August, but European factories were generally closed in August so, in effect, European manufacturers' U.S. model years ran largely from September through July.  My 1970, for instance, was manufactured September 8, 1969.  That's a bona fide 1970 model; not a 1969 model "re-titled" as a 1970.  Model years for non-U.S. cars can vary with the country's registration and titling rules.  In some jurisdictions, the date of sale determines the date on the title.

 

Dashes have been cracking for the last 30 or so years.  My '73 currently has a one-piece '74-'76 dash. But I have an excellent two-piece dash awaiting the car's re-paint.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

Edited by Conserv

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For US spec tii's the VIN changeover is 2762630--that's the first '73 off the line.  Lower numbers are '72s, higher are 73s.  Confirmed via the factory parts books.  That car is here in Dayton--very rusty but restorable.

 

cheers

mike

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Well, I got a chance to speak with the owner this morning. He has only owned the car for a little over a year and has not really used it and has decided to sell it. All of the work done on the car was done by the previous owner who lived in VA. It turns out that the dash was replaced with a '74 one-piece. He also mentioned that the '72 engine was replaced with a '73. The engine replacement was done by Sports Car Restoration in Plainville, CT. Does anyone out there have any experience with them and/or know about them? The current owner thought that they may still have the original '72 engine at their shop.

I have made plans to see the car again and hopefully drive it. I have to say that I am somewhat less enthusiastic now that I know about the changes done to the car, but if the price is right, I may get over it.

 

Tony

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Here you go http://www.bmw2002faq.com/search/?type=forums_topic&q=Sports+Car+Restoration

There is a bit of superfluous stuff in the search results, but it is easy to sift out.

I don't recall ever reading anything negative about them.

To the contrary, I remember enjoying lots of photos and documentation of the work they have done.

A lot of it was presented in almost a 'how to' format.

No personal experience, but I hope this helps.

Tom 

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On June 21, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Ensign said:

Well, I got a chance to speak with the owner this morning. He has only owned the car for a little over a year and has not really used it and has decided to sell it. All of the work done on the car was done by the previous owner who lived in VA. It turns out that the dash was replaced with a '74 one-piece. He also mentioned that the '72 engine was replaced with a '73. The engine replacement was done by Sports Car Restoration in Plainville, CT. Does anyone out there have any experience with them and/or know about them? The current owner thought that they may still have the original '72 engine at their shop.

I have made plans to see the car again and hopefully drive it. I have to say that I am somewhat less enthusiastic now that I know about the changes done to the car, but if the price is right, I may get over it.

 

Tony

 

Tony,

 

Sports Car Restoration (SCR) is absolutely top notch.  It's one of the true "go-to" places for '02's.

 

The dash is no biggie.  The original dash on 97% of '72-'73 tii's is quite rough (cracked) by now.  So you'd be replacing it anyway.  The tough part is finding any two-piece dash with a good upper component!  They're out there but generally take some time to find.  And, oh yeah, the good one's are not inexpensive.

 

The engine is a different story, and hard to solve unless you can find the original block.  I'd call SCR and speak with Matt or Nate, explain the car you're looking at, and see if they do have the original engine.  If you had the name of the owner who commissioned the engine work, it would make the call much easier (and you already have the VIN/engine number).

 

Good luck,

 

Steve

 

 

Edited by Conserv

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'72 Tiis had plastic intake runners that tend to crack over time, new ones are are worse than the originals from what I've heard. BMW fixed this by going with metal intake runners on very late '72 & all '73-74 models. Definitely call SCR, they are the best '02 specialty shop in my humble opinion.

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I spoke with Nate at SCR and he has been very helpful. He was able to confirm that SCR did do a fair amount of work over a 5 - month period in 2012. We're not sure, but it sounds as if the previous owner stripped the car, had it painted in 2009 (not by SCR) and then sent it to SCR in 2012 to put it back together, including putting in the '73 engine.

 

Nate will check to see if they still have the original block. I plan to buy the car regardless. The seller and I have agreed on a price.

 

I'm a little concerned about the position of the new fenders as they interfere with the leading edge of the door belt moulding when the door is open. You have seen it before, the belt moulding is forced backward when it hits the fender when opening the door then the door is closed and bends the belt moulding at the other end. ughh!

I may be able to adjust the doors back a little, but there is not a lot of room for adjustment backward.

 

In addition, neither door closes all the way because of the new, rubber door seals. I have read various threads about URO vs. BMW door seals. Is there a way to identify the seals as URO or BMW?

Thanks,

 

Tony

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Aftermarket door seals tend to be solid along the upper edge - genuine BMW seals (should be) are hollow for softer compression against the glass and vent window frame.  Think I've read posts about several different seals. 

 

Belt line trim interference at the leading door edge can be fixed two ways:

1) loosen the nuts then tap the trim a little moving it rearward.

2) adjust the hood (this is what I had to do)

 

if you are talking about the black knee trim- there should be a thin piece at the leading edge of the door.

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Thanks for the info Jim. It is the belt line trim that has the interference.

It turns out that I bought the car this morning, and although I wasn't expecting it, it came with 5 - large bins of new and used spare parts, plus a set of what seem to be unused springs and the original seats. A gearbox, differential and injection pump was also included. It will take some time to sort it all out. I could have a yard sale if I lived on FAQ street,

I'm guessing the previous, previous owner had a donor car that was used to restore the car that I bought and he saved all the unused, usable parts from that donor car.

 

Tony

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Also check to see if the door brakes are limiting maximum door travel as they should be. They tend to break. If so, that may contribute to your trim issue.

 

Cheers,

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1 hour ago, jgerock said:

We are waiting for some pictures?

 

+1

 

This is true!  ?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited by Conserv

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2 hours ago, jgerock said:

We are waiting for some pictures?

 

.......and I'm waiting for the car.

I'm having it transported even though it's only 40 minutes away. I think I got spooked after reading the threads about starting a fuel injected engine after storage. It was only in storage for about 15 months, but I don't know how or if it was prepared for storage. Anyway, I should see it today or tomorrow. I'll definitely post some pictures. I know you guys will see something that I don't regarding the doors (and a lot more).

 

Tony

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