'76mintgrun'02

Making Pop-Out Windows Stay Out

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A few years ago I made some plastic washers, to try and make the pop-outs stay out, but it didn't work.  I tried to search for my post, but did not find it, so here is a new thread, for the new fix.

 

The little chrome plated pivot bolt has a turned down portion, for the set screw on the knob, to keep it from unwinding and falling out the window.  That smaller portion is too short, in that the little screw bottoms out on the shaft, before the knob clamps the hinge and it winds up trying to do the clamping.  

 

The smaller portion is too short, in the other direction as well, in that the screw bottoms out again, before there is room to add a washer under the knob, to solve the problem mentioned above.

 

The easiest solution I could come up with was to turn down a bit more of the threaded end of the shaft, giving more room to add a washer under the knob.  You need that little shoulder sticking above the hinge, to align the outer portion of the hinge/clamp (and to keep the new washer aligned).  That is why you cannot just turn it down in that direction, to allow the knob to seat, without a washer.  That That makes sense, right?

 

The brass washer is .050" thick, but would not need to be homemade.  I just thought the brass was pretty.  I tried making washers to go inside the hinge as well, but had no luck.  There are tiny little fiber washers inside the hinge, so be careful not to loose them, if you take the whole thing apart.  There is no need to do more than remove the knob and bolt, for this fix.

 

Here is a comparison of the bolt I modified and an original (note-- there is distortion from the camera lens in the photo below.  The thick part of the shafts are still the same length.  Material has only been removed from the threaded end, making the turned down portion longer.)

051.JPG

This shows the little set screw and two window's worth of washers

060.JPG

This shows the washer in place

061.JPG

And the knob back on.

062.JPG

 

To turn down the shaft, I drilled a hole in a piece of wood, the depth of the threads I wanted to leave (protect), then used the grinder, with a cut off wheel installed to remove the threads.  

055.JPG

One could achieve the same thing with the edge of a file and a little patience.  I actually cleaned it up that way afterwards.  You do want to clean up that last thread when you are done.  Buggered threads will chew up the brass insert inside the knob.  I ran the bolt into a 6mm x 1.0 die after that first photo was taken.

 

Be very careful of the little white plastic 'clamp covers' they are incredibly delicate and NLA from BMW.

 

I got back into this while trying to retrofit e21 mechanisms.  

065.JPG

I won't go so far as to say they cannot be made to work, but it would take some creative work to fit them.  They have the advantage of detents to keep them open.  I no longer need detents, since they FINALLY work like they should.  

 

Tom

Edited by '76Mintgrun'02
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4 minutes ago, adawil2002 said:

I use wine corks.

Dang it.  Classy wine drinkers one-up me again.  I can't for the life of me get beer caps to keep that window open.

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I always thought this was a design feature, , once over 70 MPH they close automatically to improve the aero dynamics,

 

I have seen the Dodge (some mini van) conversion, using their openers to activate the windows, and I don't think then they can slam shut.

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Cheers!   ...to creative problem solving.

 

Tennis balls anyone?

 

It is a funny little puzzle, if you take one apart and look at the pieces.

I can't see how it worked well when new.

 

The early cars have different latches, don't they?

Do they have the same problem?

 

I could not see a  way to make it work by just modifying the shaft, or just adding a washer.  It seemed to need both.

One other solution might be changing the set screw position in the cap, but that seemed a bit... intrusive.

 

As for corks, caps, tennis balls... whatever works for you is fine with me.

I'm just glad I finally solved this little puzzle and thought I would share what I found.

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23 minutes ago, Russell74Fjord said:

I always thought this was a design feature, , once over 70 MPH they close automatically to improve the aero dynamics,

 

:D I can confirm a brand new set will stay set open and not close at over 100 MPH...

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3 hours ago, '76Mintgrun'02 said:

Do they have the same problem?

Not if you stay under 20mph and no crosswinds.

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6 hours ago, MatthewCervi said:

I can't for the life of me get beer caps to keep that window open.

Use a beer can.  Extra points in your can buy them individually in a paper bag.  Make sure you wave to local law enforcement.

 

 

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Great write up and creative solution. This one has infuriated me since high school! Thanks for the meticulous presentation.

 

COOP

Edited by COOP

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I have one that stays open and one that closes. Both are original to the car. I always thought that the geometry was slightly different on them since the one that stays open seems to open a little further than the other.

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If you have the latches with the little chrome knobs on top (vs black plastic) use a wide, thin bladed screwdriver to tighten the screw in the center of the knob.  That'll keep the windows open up to 75-80 mph, but the screw will eventually loosen up and require perodic tightening.  I carry a stubby screwdriver with a ground down blade just for that purpose.  

 

Dunno how tight you can crank down the plastic knobs without 'em breaking.  

 

mike

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Thank you Coop, meticulous is one of my favourite words, right up there with minutia.

I tried to whittle down the presentation, to essential information, but it is hard when so much is packed into such a tiny little problem.


The truth is, I did it for the dog.  Luna likes that window open, so she can sniff the smells, as she paints on the glass with her wet nose.

051.JPG

...when she is not sleeping, that is

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Luna likes riding in the BMW

023.JPG
 

Mike, thank you for describing the difference between early and late knobs.  

There is no such screw on these.  I find mySelf (no pun intended = liar) wondering what some other differences might be.

 

There is not much 'leverage' with the small bakelite knob, yet no room for a larger one.  

The tiny set screw landing on the shoulder of the bolt, simply can't get the job done.

The knob's base needs to bottom out, not the screw, so more torque on the knob is really not the answer.

 

Vintage VW pop-outs have serrated mating surfaces , so they really stay where you put them. 

I am sure there is more than one way to resolve this issue.  This is just the one I came up with.

 

It was/is tempting to make properly dimensioned stainless bolts.

 

I was hesitant to compromise the chrome coating on the original pieces... 

... which is where it started seeming 'crazy'

then what?  make new bolts and put the precious originals into the spares bin?

          they SUCK, grind them!     done

Sorry, my half assed plastic washer fix I'd tried added AggrAvAtion to the situAtion.

 

An entrepreneurial fellow would jot down the new dimensions and start producing new stainless bolt$ 

 

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17 hours ago, adawil2002 said:

I use wine corks.

Andrew,

 

Do you prop the window open with a wine cork? Or do you cut up the cork and use it to make the mechanism tighter so it stays open?

I would love to have windows that stay open for summer driving.

 

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