engine and drivetrain Break-in Oil....when to ditch it?

[arminyack]

So I've got about 250 miles on the new motor...and the Amsoil break-in oil is no longer its pretty shade of red...but a dull light pink. When should I ditch this stuff....and what should I replace it with? I'm not so sure if i should jump right back to the Brad Penn 20-50 (partial synthetic) Any advice here?

 

TIA!

[wegweiser]

I changed my Brad Penn after 500 miles. Currently running Castrol dino oil for another 2500 miles or so… probably stick w Dino oil after that for one more oil change. Then going with a synthetic 10-40, probably. Trying to stay away from 20/50, as it contributed to some high oil pressure issues on cold morning start-ups, as well as possibly exaggerating my sticking oil pressure relief valve. 

 

Just my opinion….and err'body has an opinion on oil, right? 

 

My advice: ask the machinist / builder that did the work, what they would prefer.

Edited May 25, 2016 by wegweiser

[achman]

Don't listen to Wegweiser, have you seen what his car looks like?

[roadhog0]

I tend to dump the first break in oil after cam break in then do another round for 500 miles, then normal dino for 2-3k and what ever you desire after that. Has worked on rigs for me. Filter change each time.

[TobyB]

Depends on how hard you drive it.

 

I believe in the 'high ring pressure' version, so I run the car really hard 

after a thorough warm up, repeat 2 or 3 times,

then change the oil to synthetic after that.

 

That's worked, too.

 

t

 

[Conserv]

Korman put in a straight 20W dino oil, to be changed after 750 miles with a multi-viscosity dino oil, which I did.  I initially used 10W/40 but am now back to my old 20W/50 (I was living in Atlanta at the time and 20/50 is a year-round oil in that climate).  They recommended against moving to a synthetic oil until at least 5,000 miles or, optimally, 10,000 miles, under the theory that the slipperiness of synthetic might interfere with the breaking-in process that continues to occur after 750 miles.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[Mike Self]

For my rebuilt engine (bored, just about everything new inside), I put non-synthetic 20w-50 oil in for its break-in--an 800 mile round trip to Vintage and back, taking care to vary engine speed and let it coast periodically against compression.  Then at about 1k miles, I changed to 20w-50 synthetic.  That was 50k miles ago, and it's running just fine, using essentially no oil and has good oil pressure.  

 

That's my experience--FWIW...

 

mike

[rstclark]

I did a 10w30 Valvoline for break in for 250 miles,  and then went to a full  synthetic for a couple of hundred miles.   The results were a very noisy motor

 Changed to Castrol  20w50 like it says on the original sticker under the hood     and all is quiet

 Do a search if you want to see all the discussion about motor oil  It goes on and on

The reality is that motor oil these days is sooooo much better than it was in the 70's,   it really doesn't matter what you choose

For me  IMHO conventional  20w50 is the way to go

 

[percy]

I have a slightly different take on engine break in and break in oil.  Plain and simple, change the oel as soon as the engine is "broken in" and ready for normal use.

 

I have had good results with various engines both being relatively gentle and pushing the pedal hard, similar to Toby's description.  (Sometimes you do not have complete control over how an engine you just rebuilt is cared for, especially, if others have access to the auto corral and the keys to unlock it.)    Also, a lot has to do with the anticipated use of the engine, the parts used and the tolerances employed with those parts.  Although significant care should go into all rebuilds, a big slow revving under-stressed flat head V8 may not need the same attention to detail as with a balanced smaller displacement high revving OHC plant.  Where I do differ with many is a preference for changing the oil even more frequently than the usual 500 mile recommendation.  Often, but not always, when the oil is changed on a fresh engine, the drained oil will have a metallic sheen where it is filled with metal particulates shed by the new parts, e.g., bearings, rings, timing chains, drive gears and valve train.  Obviously, despite the presence of an oil filter, the filtration system is less than perfect.  Jimk may explain that modern engine oil is designed to safely hold combustion byproducts and engine detritus in suspension.  Nevertheless, as the always sagacious PaulW observed, everybody is entitled his opinion, and mine is to purge these unwanted toxins sooner rather than later.  The same logic applies to more frequent oil changes on every level.  Is it necessary?  Probably not.  Still, having a few engines clock close to 200K, I would argue that the practice couldn't hurt (except for the additional oil and filter costs).  Of course, if I didn't build my engines to last, than why bother?   

 

Your question did not seem to target viscosity choice, but when in doubt 20W50 seems to be a safe bet.  As alluded to above, the builder and/or machinist might have better advice, especially if tolerances and/or different materials warrant.  For years I swore by a break in with straight 30 weight followed by old faithful 20W50, but in the last decade lighter synthetics, e.g., 0W40 and 15W50 seem more than adequate.

[TobyB]

Quote

Often, but not always, when the oil is changed on a fresh engine, the drained oil will have a metallic sheen

Yeah, and it's hard to tell if it's aluminum, iron, or both.

If I have an engine with a significant cam, I'll change the

oil after the first hard cycle, for just that reason, to

another round of break- in oil.  The stuff is so cheap

compared to a cam and fancy rockers.

OR break in the cam on a different engine, so it

can get synthetic from rotation #5.  Because cams

and rings break in so differently...

 

And I'm a religious adherent to the church of the holy rollin' ZDDP....

t

 

[percy]

57 minutes ago, TobyB said:

Yeah, and it's hard to tell if it's aluminum, iron, or both.

If I have an engine with a significant cam, I'll change the

oil after the first hard cycle, for just that reason, to

another round of break- in oil.  The stuff is so cheap

compared to a cam and fancy rockers.

OR break in the cam on a different engine, so it

can get synthetic from rotation #5.  Because cams

and rings break in so differently...

 

And I'm a religious adherent to the church of the holy rollin' ZDDP....

t

 

 

 

We are on the same page regarding frequent oil changes.  Religion and zinc phosphate is another matter.

 

I am not much of a chemist, but various associates who are so inclined have reminded me on occasion that there there can be too much of a good thing, including zinc additives.  Setting aside issues with catalytic converters that don't directly affect our cars, evidently, too much  zinc can have an adverse effect on oil detergents and dispersants and may even result in bearing and camshafts spalling.  This is one of the very things the ZDDP additive is touted as preventing.  (Somewhat analogous to using extreme pressure lube GL5 in a transmission with yellow metal.  The additive protects the gears but may deteriorate brass/bronze alloy synchros.)

 

Engines that get used tend to wear and that includes bearings and valve train parts. and even cam lobes.  I am still using many of those original parts from the early '70s and whether this is a testament to design, construction and/or maintenance with moderate use of ZDDP is unknown.  Maybe pure dumb luck is involved too.  However, clean living has not been particularly kind to synchronizers.

 

[arminyack]

Thanks for the input. I am using the same ole stock cam and rockers I had from before the rebuild. Its the pistons -rings-bearings, a couple of valves, valve seats and other misc. stuff that new. So my break in has been a hard one, to get them rings broken in....I had it up to 5k within minutes after warm-up. ( I drove it to 4k, then let decompression slow me down to 2k, then repeat, going to 4.25k, then down to 2k again, etc, all the way to 5k. I'll probably swap out this for dino oil at 500 miles or so.

[jgerock]

I just put 411 miles on my fresh rebuilt engine in the 69. First 100 miles I took it easy (no revving over 3500) with on/off cycling of loading.  Had no choice ? But to put more loading with 4K rpm last weekend driving the twisty mountain roads in the Pisgah National Forest of NC with a K75s, M635i, e30 M3 and 2014 M235i pressing me (more like trying to see my tail lights in the fog).  I used Royal Purple break in oil. Will see what it looks like at 500 miles.

[Preyupy]

I really depends on what your "rebuild" entailed.  If you are running new cam and/or rocker arms you want to make sure you run something with lots of Phosphorus and Zink (The biggest difference between regular and "Break-in" oil)  and the longer you leave it in the better (it gets burnished into the cam and face of the rockers)  On our engines I recommend you add ZDDP or make sure your oil choice has higher levels of it than normal even after break-in. 

 

The break-in procedure for the piston rings depends on the type of rings you used. Did you bore the block and install new pistons and rings or did you just hone it and install new rings on the old pistons?  The surface finish in the block makes a HUGE difference.  If you are running the newer style thin ring packages it changes again.  My best recommendation for a basically stock rebuild (this includes Ti/Tii 9

.5-10.0: 1 pistons and up to a 304 cam) is start with a 30 weight non-synthetic oil (add ZDDP or run a "Break-in" oil).  Make sure it is up to temp before you lean on it very hard. Keep the revs below 4,000 for a 200-300 miles and just drive it normally, don't just get out on the freeway and cruise at 70 mph for an hour.  Watch your oil consumption,  if you are a real worrier change your filter at about 500 miles and top up the oil and run it to about 1000 miles running it a bit harder as you go.  If you cut the filter apart and look at what is in it you will be surprised, all sorts of metal particles, shop towel lint, gasket sealer, etc.  There is nothing wrong with the oil just change the filter and top up the oil.   Put in what ever oil you would like to run (again I recommend adding ZDDP if your oil is a low Phosphorus/Zink oil)  and you are ready to go.  If the rings are not seated within your first 200 miles they aren't going to seat.    

[percy]

5 hours ago, Preyupy said:

I really depends on what your "rebuild" entailed.  If you are running new cam and/or rocker arms you want to make sure you run something with lots of Phosphorus and Zink (The biggest difference between regular and "Break-in" oil)  and the longer you leave it in the better (it gets burnished into the cam and face of the rockers)  On our engines I recommend you add ZDDP or make sure your oil choice has higher levels of it than normal even after break-in. 

 

The break-in procedure for the piston rings depends on the type of rings you used. Did you bore the block and install new pistons and rings or did you just hone it and install new rings on the old pistons?  The surface finish in the block makes a HUGE difference.  If you are running the newer style thin ring packages it changes again.  My best recommendation for a basically stock rebuild (this includes Ti/Tii 9

.5-10.0: 1 pistons and up to a 304 cam) is start with a 30 weight non-synthetic oil (add ZDDP or run a "Break-in" oil).  Make sure it is up to temp before you lean on it very hard. Keep the revs below 4,000 for a 200-300 miles and just drive it normally, don't just get out on the freeway and cruise at 70 mph for an hour.  Watch your oil consumption,  if you are a real worrier change your filter at about 500 miles and top up the oil and run it to about 1000 miles running it a bit harder as you go.  If you cut the filter apart and look at what is in it you will be surprised, all sorts of metal particles, shop towel lint, gasket sealer, etc.  There is nothing wrong with the oil just change the filter and top up the oil.   Put in what ever oil you would like to run (again I recommend adding ZDDP if your oil is a low Phosphorus/Zink oil)  and you are ready to go.  If the rings are not seated within your first 200 miles they aren't going to seat.    

 

You and others offer a blanket recommendation for adding ZDDP, "if your oil is a low Phosphorus/Zinc oil."  But you never define the parameters of how much or too little.  Similar to describing torque as "loose but not enough to fall off"  or "snug but not too tight.?"   Maybe some more information from a third party vendor can provide meaningful insight.  

 

 

ZDDP Mythology?

 

There are obviously a lot of myths surrounding oil and oil additives.  Jimk has addressed many of them, but perhaps even more is better.  The following links will undoubtedly perpetuate even more of those myths, despite attempting to put them to rest.  No affiliation with this outfit, and you are welcome to disagree (obviously) but if you do, it is generally a good idea to support your position with fact rather than opinion.  Before reading any of these articles, consider that most engines, including the M10s have fair tolerance for assembly and maintenance miscues, so that they will provide an "adequate" service life, when a few corners are inadvertently cut.  However, it stands to reason that those engines will last considerably longer if properly assembled and maintained.

 

 

The short history of ZDDP: http://zddplus.com/TechBrief2 - ZDDP and Cam Wear - Just Another Engine Oil Myth.pdf

(See page 3  "more is not better"  too much phosphorus can cause camshaft spalling . . . )

 

Why racing oil may not be the best alternative for street car use:  http://zddplus.com/TechBrief5 - Racing Oil as a Replacement for SM Oil.pdf

 

ZDDP use for engine break in: http://zddplus.com/TechBrief12 - ZDDP and Engine Break-in.pdf

 

Quote

Our recommendation is based on an oil change immediately after the initial break in period of 45 minutes or so.  For initioal start-up and break in, fill the oil sump with conventional non-synthetic oil and zddp additive.  Period.  Our testing of many factory fill oils shows the major automotive manufactuers specify an initial break-in oil fill for high performance engines with zddp for bonding sites on the fresh metal being exposed by the break-in, so the less detergent during this period the better.  Detergent and zddp also serve an importnat role iof increasing the polarity of the oil, which increases its attraction to the metal parts being broken in,  By keeping the zddp level high during break-in, you are increasing the bonding of the oil film to the metal.

 

Why extended oil changes are probably not a good idea for M10 engines: http://zddplus.com/TechBrief15 - Extended Oil Change Intervals.pdf

 

All from http://zddplus.com/