body and interior 1971 Jan build 2002 -Reflector or powered marker light?

[Dionk]

Hi all. Trying to figure out

What goes here? Reflector or powered side marker?

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Edited May 23, 2016 by Dionk
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[NYNick]

Mine is/was powered, but I have a 74.

[Dionk]

This is a 1971.

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[Russell74Fjord]

that cut out is for a powered side marker/light, and interestingly, the front is just a reflector, not powered,

[TobyB]

...but a roundie should have only a rear reflector. 

Unless maybe it's  a '73.  But you don't have a '73 bumper.

 

The front side illumination is provided by the turn signal, so that was never illuminated.

 

t

 

[jimk]

25 minutes ago, TobyB said:

...but a roundie should have only a rear reflector. 

Unless maybe it's  a '73.  But you don't have a '73 bumper.

The front side illumination is provided by the turn signal, so that was never illuminated.

you got up on the wrong side of the bed and looked at the car backwards.  The front has a reflector and the rear is a powered light is the way mine came new.

[Dionk]

The box of parts I got with the car has both but I'm missing the rear left.. Found a couple out there and trying to figure out what to put on .

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[Conserv]

On 5/23/2016 at 1:29 PM, jimk said:

you got up on the wrong side of the bed and looked at the car backwards.  The front has a reflector and the rear is a powered light is the way mine came new.

 

Highly unusual for Toby to be wrong!  But I am voting with Jim on this:  From January 1, 1969 onward, front side reflectors with amber lenses and rear side marker lights (i.e., electrified) with red lenses.  The lenses, however, are exchangeable, and lots of people have screwed up what the U.S. Federal government demanded!  In other words, and for example, I've seen amber reflectors on the rear, but that was NOT how the car left the factory.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

EDIT:  As we work through later in this thread, the rear side markers are solely reflectors, i.e., not electrified lights, until late in the 1969 calendar year, probably just in advance of a Federally-mandated January 1, 1970 “drop-dead” date.

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Conserv

[Conserv]

4 hours ago, Dionk said:

Hi all. Trying to figure out

What goes here? Reflector or powered side market?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Dionk,

 

You should really post the year and model of your car.  I'm guessing, from your photograph, that it is a mid-'71 or earlier car, but not earlier than January 1, 1969.  It just makes giving advice a bit easier if you have a clue as to the facts!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[TobyB]

Oh no, you don't. 

 

rears weren't lighted until mid '71 at the earliest, and I whacked a '72 that wasn't, either.

 

But for the 72, (verified by VIN, not title, of course) I would have guessed that the illumination started mid '71. 

 

The early cars had reflectors back there, not lights. 

 

I'll fight you all to the death on this one, I will!

 

heh

 

t

 

(who might be wrong...)

[Conserv]

5 hours ago, TobyB said:

Oh no, you don't. 

 

rears weren't lighted until mid '71 at the earliest, and I whacked a '72 that wasn't, either.

 

But for the 72, (verified by VIN, not title, of course) I would have guessed that the illumination started mid '71. 

 

The early cars had reflectors back there, not lights. 

 

I'll fight you all to the death on this one, I will!

 

heh

 

t

 

(who might be wrong...)

 

Well, Toby, the rear fascia panel reflectors did appear in '71-ish.  And maybe that signaled other changes relating to reflectors and side markers.

 

But without rear side marker lamps, I don't understand how an '02 met the U.S. requirements (Standard No. 108), effective January 1, 1969, to have sidemarkers lights -- just look at U.S. 1969 cars (and actually most U.S. 1968 model cars).  I always understood that the '02's front reflectors were permitted because -- unlike most cars' parking lights and front turn signals -- an '02's parking lights/front turn signals were fully visible from the side, obviating the need for a separate sidemarker light.  But the tail-lights weren't visible from the side.

 

Yes, I could be wrong as well.  But if I am, I am hoping someone can explain why every U.S. make and model I can think of, 1969 and later, had actual sidemarker lamps, front and rear!  Any possibility that, perhaps, repaired models did not always receive their original equipment?

 

Admittedly it's NOT definitive, but I plugged my old '70 (September 8, 1969) into RealOEM.com and it shows front reflectors and rear sidemarker lamps, bulb and all:

 

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=2552-USA-09-1969-114-BMW-2002&diagId=63_0494

 

On the other hand, I looked at my old '70's U.S. supplement manual and there is no reference to bulbs or wiring for rear side marker lamps. 

 

I'm hoping Mike S. will see this thread and shed some...light on the issue, or perhaps a few...reflections!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 24, 2016 by Conserv

[DRedman]

my early 71 has the big hole lighted side markers

[Mike Self]

Side markers 101...

 

As of 1 January 1969 Federal requirement were for amber front and red rear side reflectors; they didn't have to be lit at that point.  The 1 January date is why the "first series" model year 1969 cars (those built between 1 Sept 1968 and 1 Jan 1969) don't have side reflectors.

 

 

The rear reflectors were electrified sometime in 1971--I suspect around 1 January when Federal requirements required them to be illuminated. Front reflectors were always amber and unlit, because on the later cars the parking lights styed lit when the headlights were turned on, and  provided amber illumination to the side.  And sometimes in 1970 the factory added those little  red reflectors to the rear body panels.  Square taillights include a reflector panel, so those separate small reflectors weren't needed after 1973.

 

Easy way to tell whether your roundie has rear side reflectors or lights (presuming the quarter panels haven't been replaced):  if there's a half-dollar-sized hole in the quarter panel, your car has a light; two small holes, it's a reflector.  If you want exact VINs as to the changeover, check the factory parts book; it'll tell you.

 

mike

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2016 by mike

[laundromatt]

My car is an early '71.  Here you go.

 

Edited May 23, 2016 by laundromatt

[Conserv]

54 minutes ago, mike said:

Side markers 101...

 

As of 1 January 1969 Federal requirement were for amber front and red rear side reflectors; they didn't have to be lit at that point.  The 1 January date is why the "first series" model year 1969 cars (those built between 1 Sept 1968 and 1 Jan 1969) don't have side reflectors.

 

 

The rear reflectors were electrified sometime in 1971--I suspect around 1 January when Federal requirements required them to be illuminated. Front reflectors were always amber and unlit, because on the later cars the parking lights styed lit when the headlights were turned on, and  provided amber illumination to the side.  And sometimes in 1970 the factory added those little  red reflectors to the rear body panels.  Square taillights include a reflector panel, so those separate small reflectors weren't needed after 1973.

 

Easy way to tell whether your roundie has rear side reflectors or lights (presuming the quarter panels haven't been replaced):  if there's a half-dollar-sized hole in the quarter panel, your car has a light; two small holes, it's a reflector.  If you want exact VINs as to the changeover, check the factory parts book; it'll tell you.

 

mike

 

 

 

 

Thank you, Mike.  That's what we needed!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve