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gallian93

1972 BMW 2002tii Agave Green with Saddle/Tan interior

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Thought i'd post this on here as not many turn up in the northeast...

 

http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/cto/5356795251.html

Price is listed as $12,500

Seems (to a newbie like me) a nice car....

Seller states that it is zero rust and original miles and condition...

I'd go take a look at this myself (maybe even buy it) but "the non running for 4 years" part is what gave me pause... I am still to saddle my first 02 so getting a non-runner may not be the best way to start...

So I thought this may attract the attention of a more seasoned FAQer (no joke intended)....

If someone does go look at it (and not buy) let the rest of us know what you thought...

 

NM/NA

post-48282-0-90572000-1450119518_thumb.j

Edited by gallian93

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VIN 2762358 should be a late 1972 model, probably manufactured July 1972. I like it at the $10,000 opening bid. If you're after a matching numbers example, double-check that engine number. I expect a July 1972 tii to have both a firewall notch -- check! -- and aluminum intake runners -- no check! (The plastic runners have been replaced, witness their paper part number labels, symptomatic of a none-too-fastidious installer, but little else.) All in all, lots of potential if the rust situation is as described! For further discussion of the firewall notch and intake runner issue, see Post #6 of:

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/170365-73-tii-kugelfischer-fuel-injection-pump/?hl=%2Bvin+%2Brange+%2Btii+%2Bfirewall#entry1063849

The head -- I expect an E12 based on the VIN but plastic runners generally accompany 121 heads -- will be identified as either 121 or E12 and have a casting date. The plenum (accumulator) will also generally have a casting date but I wouldn't be surprised to see that it is at least a few months earlier than the car's July manufacturing date.

Note also the chrome front seat hinges, which I believe are correct for a 1972 U.S.-model tii. I contend that all 1972 U.S.-model tii's -- OK, JUST about all -- received chrome seat hinges even though painted black metal hinges were the norm on 1972 U.S.-model base 2002's.

Regards,

Steve

Edited by Conserv

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VIN 2762358 should be a late 1972 model, probably manufactured July 1972. I certainly like it at the $10,000 opening bid. If you're after a matching numbers example, double-check that engine number. I expect a July 1972 tii to have both a firewall notch -- check! -- and aluminum intake runners -- no check! All in all, lots of potential if the rust situation is as described! For further discussion of this issue, see Post #6 of:

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/170365-73-tii-kugelfischer-fuel-injection-pump/?hl=%2Bvin+%2Brange+%2Btii+%2Bfirewall#entry1063849

The head -- I expect an E12 based on the VIN -- will be identified as either 121 or E12 and have a casting date. The plenum (accumulator) will also generally have a casting date but I wouldn't be surprised to see that it is at least a few months earlier than the car's July manufacturing date.

Note also the chrome front seat hinges. I contend that all 1972 U.S.-model tii's -- OK, JUST about all -- received chrome seat hinges even though painted black metal hinges were the norm on 1972 U.S.-model base 2002's.

Regards,

Steve

Out of interest, from the pics/info that I have:-

2762318 - manuf 26 Jul '72 - no notch & plastic runners

2762325 - manuf 27 Jul '72 - notch & plastic runners

2762341 - manuf 28 Jul '72 - notch & plastic runners

2762397 - manuf ??? - notch & alum runners

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Out of interest, from the pics/info that I have:-

2762318 - manuf 26 Jul '72 - no notch & plastic runners

2762325 - manuf 27 Jul '72 - notch & plastic runners

2762341 - manuf 28 Jul '72 - notch & plastic runners

2762397 - manuf ??? - notch & alum runners

Very interesting, Les! Especially VIN 2762318. Why? Because you can easily put plastic runners in an "aluminum runner" car but, seriously, who would fill the firewall notch? Were it not for 2762318, I'd simply say, "There was a shortage of aluminum runners, or late manifolds, or late accumulators, or whatever in July and a bunch of these very late '72s wound up with plastic runners, even after aluminum runners had become the norm." But how to explain 2762318? "The shortage was so great that they even briefly stopped notching the firewalls?"

Explanations were simpler with less data! And now we need even more data to distinguish trend from aberration.

Best regards,

Steve

Edited by Conserv

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Very interesting.

 

This car is five miles from where I work at Bentley Publishers. I called the seller the day the ad appeared (Sunday).

 

I don't think I've ever had a less reassuring conversation with a seller.

 

It's not that he was rude. Brusk is probably a better word. The general vibe was that he didn't want to take the time to answer a lot of questions and said that he couldn't be pulling the car in and out of storage for everyone who wanted to kick the tires. I get it, it's a pain to sell a car, and it's a bigger pain to maximize the value of a car (I know this better than most people). But you can't expect to dodge questions or not show the car just because you don't want to.

 

The deal breaker for me was this. I said that I understood where he was coming from, and if I was ready to engage him in the serious manner he wanted, I'd call him back. 

 

"What does serious mean to you?" he asked. "To me, it means coming over with cash and being ready to buy the car."

 

I pointed out that I don't routinely keep TWELVE THOUSAND DOLLARS IN CASH AT MY HOUSE ON SUNDAY.

 

If you look at the ad, you'll see that the car is wearing CA plates and has no MA state inspection sticker. This means that the car was likely never registered in MA. This means that the car was likely never titled in MA. So even though the ad says "clean title," I have my doubts. Other states may be easier, but MA is a total pain in the ass about this. You need a title, or a prior registration in the name of the seller. The claim of an "original CA pink slip" means nothing to me.  If you have neither of those, it gets very dicey. You need to go through a capricious process (meaning they can simply deny you title) where you and the seller submit notarized affidavits explaining why he is the actual owner, even though there's neither a title nor a prior registration. If the seller isn't willing to help you, you're boned. If they deny you, you're boned.

 

I imagined the title situation that happened with that 2000C I owned 32 years ago back in Austin -- when I bought the car on the promise that the seller would help me with a title issue, then he never lifted a finger. I got out of that one by the skin of my teeth via a personal hearing with the county tax assessor, who called the guy on the phone, heard his side of the story, hung up, thought for a moment, then said "we'll he's obviously a lying sack of shit. I'm granting you clear title."

 

I wondered if the guy even owned the car. But then he said some very specific things, like a PO of the car working at Vasek Polak, and VP diagnosing a vacuum leak due to a cracked plastic intake tube. Not sure what to make of all that. I asked him about the snorkel nose, and he was quite familiar with the stories here on the FAQ of a handful of new tiis being delivered, for whatever reason, with snorkels. He said a number of people had looked at it and said the welds looked original. If you believe him.

 

I've grown rather risk-averse. If the guy came across like most 2002 owners, I would've dropped everything and looked. Even if I could look at the car and verify the condition of the body, something about the guy just flashed a big red "Danger Will Robinson" light. I think about hidden engine damage because the car is being sold as non-running. Four years sitting in storage isn't THAT long for a tii. If that's all it is, why not pay someone a few hundred bucks to drain the gas, throw a battery in, and see what happens? It's not that it sat for ten years outside like Old Blue.

 

Obviously, if it's a truly rust-free survivor tii with an unripped interior, an intact motor, and a fuel system that just needs cleaning (done three of those the past nine months), the CL asking price of $12,500 is a very good price. But gmwone and tinshack say the body ain't clean. Add the rest if it in and... just walk away Renee. At least I am.

 

I've had people call me and ask if I would look at the car for them, and I've explained what I've said above.

 

It's like that scene in Ocean's Eleven, where Andy Garcia says to Carl Reiner "most of all, I just don't trust you."

 

 

--Rob

Edited by thehackmechanic

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The canvas strap retaining the driver's door does not inspire confidence in how the car may have been maintained.(See the eBay ad). :o

Regards, Maurice.

Good eye, Maurice. I LOVE that feature! Are you certain it's canvas? What if it were genuine leather, color-matched to the saddle seats? Would that sway your opinion?

Apropos of Rob's excellent write up, NO ONE could tell that my '76 received a new nosepiece in '78 if I didn't tell them. Good body shops installed nosepieces the same way as the factory. Even my '73's nosepiece -- replaced prior to '93 -- won't tell its tale after it's been painted decently. And it's a correct "snorkel-less" nosepiece so NO ONE will even suspect! I am SO sneaky!

Regards,

Steve

Edited by Conserv

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Out of interest, from the pics/info that I have:-

2762318 - manuf 26 Jul '72 - no notch & plastic runners

2762325 - manuf 27 Jul '72 - notch & plastic runners

2762341 - manuf 28 Jul '72 - notch & plastic runners

2762397 - manuf ??? - notch & alum runners

My 72tii engine 2762332   pulled from a Polaris car:  aluminum runners

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