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Almost impossible, but what the heck. Maybe a Christmas Mira

Guest Anonymous

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Guest Anonymous

I have several pics of one if you need to look at one to confirm

this... getting one made isn't just toss it to a CNC shop as the

valves, cams, oil passages, retainers, keepers, springs are one off

units.. sure you could adapt off the shelf valves, springs, and

retainers and keepers for your purpose but stuff like.. at what

angle to the flat plane of the block are the intake valves and what

angle are the exhaust... I know someone who has a 16v complete

motor forsale but be forwarned.. everything down to silly stuff

like adjusting the valves is custom... this is just the head.....

headers and intake manifolds will have to be fabricated.... and

for what... nothing running on street gas could take significant

advantage of a 16v head like that...

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Guest Anonymous

I looked into this as well. I am an engineer and have a few friends who own a machine shop. It's certainly possible to have something like this made. It becomes significantly easier if you have a donor to work from. Then you can create molds to rough cast from or machine straight from a solid block of aluminum. Keep in mind programming cnc's is difficult and expensive if you don't have free time at someone's shop. Furthermore unless you know someone at GM that has access to test and measurement equipment, designing one--even off a donor--is very time consuming. I was set to put in the time to make something like this and in the end I decided against it for the following reasons:

1.) People who *supposedly* have them tell me the idle at like 2k rpms

2.) They are a racing part

3.) As Kris said, the head is only part of the equation. You got a valve cover, cams, gaskets, manifolds etc. etc. etc.

4.) It would cost more than buying one. I saw a complete schnitzer motor from a german firm that was posted on here a few weeks ago for 10k euros. I sent them an email inquiring. That would be a fraction of what it would cost to make a setup like that

5.) You can build a pretty incredible motor for under 10 grand that would have you in the 170+ bhp range

6.) The most important reason: EASY availability of an S14 motor. There's several reasons why this is a better choice--mainly because its a street motor and tons of spares are floating about.

If you are really serious about this, anything is possible. For example, I am still contemplating machining synchros for one of my 235/5's. There's a whole enthusiast group for MV agusta motorbikes that have machined all their own parts for decades. There were no spares when those things left the factory...

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Guest Anonymous


URL: http://www.sv2002.com

I have thought it through, in much more detail than you have listed. And I do have direct access and experience using all the tools listed, foundry, CNC, and much more. And also a friend of mine who has built a successful land speed record motorcycle engine (from scratch). He said it is possible definitely. But this is all just a thought, I realize that for the time and effort, I could build a sreatable 600hp turbo S14 engine. But what the heck, you gotta explore sometime right?

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Guest Anonymous

I've contemplated this as well... No one is gonna let you just

borrow their head, diasseble it, and make a rough cast of it.. I'm

sure you can get them to idle below 2k as idle control is a

proportion of the TB's and cams... the engine pictured probably

wouldn't idle below 2k with the slide throttles and a turbo hooked

to it.. if you really do have acess to all of this equipment... take a

stock head... put in large valves and hemi the chamber.. get

some pistons made and throw a 304 in.. for the street... ya can't

beat it.. it would also be a good warmup exercise to doing

something like a one off head. I will admit the schnitzer heads do

look "the business"... but when it comes to practicality.. they're

white elephants... even the price of them is comming down

because people see this aspect.. I think the avg. vintage racer is

looking for something that's unique and fun but doesn't require a

$9000 overhaul each season :) Stuff like cams and those valves

will wear like crazy because they're all heavy sprung units for high

rpm.. Casting it would probably be the only way to do it.. Silly

stuff like coolant passages... all must be considered when

aproaching a large project like this....

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Guest Anonymous

Get a hold of Rick Haner and Hanerhaus in Santa Rosa. He had one a few years back if he has not sold it.

Good Luck,

Mike (#87)

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Guest Anonymous

Ambitious idea. But as previously mentioned, there is the s14. What is the advantage you see of reproducing a schnitzer style 16v head over using an s14 head?

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Guest Anonymous

Now I get to jump in. I've thought about this as well and abandoned the schnitzer idea a LONG time ago, partly due to the fact that the cams are hollow so that oil flows through them. So I decided that i'll design my own head, yes, one that will work, and I can use redily available and tested parts from other heads for the valves, cams, springs etc.

I am a student and have a whole machine shop at my disposal, plus probably one of the smartest guys in that field. Currently, he is building a 3.0 liter V12 with a carbon fiber block, everything is custom made by him. Other stuff made here includes a 5 valve (per cylinder) Head we designed and tested for chrylser, the twin cam heads we designed for Subaru (now on all the boxers), a Scratch built 550cc V8 engine....the list goes on. The capabilities are here, the know how is here, and i'm going to use it to my FULL advantage.

I believe anyone can do whatever they set their mind to. RacingAli, go for it dude, good luck.



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Guest Anonymous

Yes, that's right not one but two. One is brand new (like I mean

never run, complete with valves, springs etc., and manifolds for

side draft carbs. The other is used and goes with my Gruppe 5

Schnitzer 2002 ti car and uses slide throttle/kugelfischer FI. I

think you have a difficult assigment ahead of you to try and make

one, but if you have the technical skills for casting an machining

go for it. If you believe in the term "it goes because it flows",

these heads flow like a mutha--I am having my used head rebuilt

as we speak in the SF Bay Area as we speak--the guy who is doing

the work flowed it--said it flowed more than any 2.0l head he had

ever seen (inlcuding the company of Toyota Atlantic engines,

Cosworth you name its and the venerable BMW M12/7--that's

saying something, I think?) By the way, the pic is of one of the

remaining Rodenstock 1.4 turbo cars I believe in Schnitzer's

showroom (or at Mobile Tradition)

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Guest Anonymous

It would be nice to design a head that used less expensive parts than those we live with for BMW. The cams for the S14, or even the M42, are more expensive than those for twincam Hondas. Same is probably true of valves, springs, keepers, guides and the rest of it. Might be parts from the new Ford Zetec and other high-volume production motors, too. It would be neat to be able to buy a bare machined head casting that would accept more common high-performance parts.

Yes, I know, the VTEC and other modern aggressive twincam systems use hydraulic gizmos and complicated valve train gear to vary the cam profile at run time, but many of these things could be locked out if compromised idle and low-end were acceptable.



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