electrical and ignition NEW Distributorless Ignition System test time

[LimeySteve]

Ed, your car is the ideal test bed ,as far from mine as possible & in the majority of 02's out there , this will be very interesting I'm really pleased with my results & wait with baited breath on your results,

[jrhone]

Very interesting!!! I know first hand the 123Tune guys will have some new stuff soon as well. We will have some good options soon. What's nice about this is it's a complete unit and replaces the coil and distributor.

[zinz]

I run the 123Ignition on my sidedrafted car with vacuum advance, but I am very interested in this new system as an upgrade to those folks with a mostly stock car with a worn-out dizzy (like my '75).  The shaft is so worn on my '75's distributor that it's chipping the wear-pad of the points, due to vibration. I know my engine will run better with a new ignition system.

 

Even the base model 123 seems to be a lot of money to spend to replace a stock distributor... 

 

...but which advance curve would work best?

 

Ed

[winstontj]

Curious as to why all of these aftermarket units are still running ignition timing off the cam gear.

I know it has been a while but in my box of mega squirt parts I have several distributor housings. Some have the aluminum flange cut off and welded shut on an angle so that the oil can still pass into the cam gear and I also found a few block off plates and camshafts with missing distributor gears. (Don't worry… e30 m10b18 motors)

I understand the need for a simple, easy install but isn't a block off plug and running ignition timing off the crankshaft more accurate and reliable? Depending on RPM and the tension/play in your timing belt/chain/gears you can usually get more play than you would think between the crankshaft and the camshaft at a static position compared to different rpm ranges. When I was doing my first mega squirt about eight or nine years ago I remember finding a difference that was bigger than I thought if I rotated the engine and stopped exactly at TDC while keeping tension on the driven side of the timing chain versus if I went past TDC and then had to back the engine up slightly.

Is this supposed to be a non-performance related, stock replacement item?

[zinz]

here's how I've looked at the worn out distributor replacement scenario:

 

Replace points with Pertronix/HotSpark electronic igniter - about $50-$125  ( doesn't solve worn/wobbly dizzy shaft and inaccurate timing)

 

Distributor rebuilt with new springs and bushings, etc... about $200-$250 ? ( still a wear item, but should provide many years of service)

 

Ireland's mechanical-only replacement dizzy with Tii curve - $180 (limitations on no vacuum advance and only the Tii curve)

 

123Ignition distributer - $400-$500 depending on model.  (still driven off cam gear, so it is susceptible to inaccuracies of the timing chain/ cam gear; but no springs to wear out.  Tune model can be programmed in real time to your engine's needs...highly desirable for a modified engine, and it has vacuum port for additional vacuum advance)

 

Crank fired ignition systems - most costly option and more mechanically involved than the above-mentioned options, but most accurate way to time the ignition system.  Not a very viable option for stock, daily drivers...

 

So.... with Lew's system, you'd be somewhere between a rebuilt dizzy and a Tune model 123Ignition.  It's still cam-gear driven, but it's electronic. No vacuum option (yet?) He'll program it to your specifications.  Comes with coil pack and wire set, so it's a complete ignition replacement kit.

 

What have I missed?

[DaHose]

If you go to a Megasquirt system, you need to source a 36-1 wheel, then  you have to fabricate/purchase and install pieces onto the front of the engine, dismantle, weld and reinstall the main pulley, build or buy the Megasquirt and build/buy a driver system for your existing or new coil.

 

The 123 system (and looks like this one too) are incredibly simple installations that don't require any of the other pieces or fabrication, while offering a significant improvement in ignition timing and overall engine performance.  All at a cost that is typically a whole lot less than a fully built out Megasquirt system.

 

These kinds of systems that drive off the camshaft are absolutely a performance improvement.  It's just that a full blown Megasquirt setup has greater potential because it is a completely modular, build-it-yourself system, but it comes with the liability of requiring a fair amount of expertise to build, install and tune the system.  Put more simply, these camshaft driven systems offer more bang-for-your-buck to the typical purchaser, when compared to a Megasquirt conversion.

 

Jose

Edited December 3, 2015 by DaHose

['76mintgrün'02]

Distributor rebuilt with new springs and bushings, etc... about $200-$250 ? ( still a wear item, but should provide many years of service)

 

This is what I would do, assuming you have a vacuum advance distributor.

(although I went the do-it-yourself 'rebuild' route).

 

Then I would drill a little hole in the cap, see...

 

But then, I am old fashioned and frugal and probably not helping.  Sorry.

Edited December 4, 2015 by '76Mintgrun'02

[winstontj]

If you go to a Megasquirt system, you need to source a 36-1 wheel, then  you have to fabricate/purchase and install pieces onto the front of the engine, dismantle, weld and reinstall the main pulley, build or buy the Megasquirt and build/buy a driver system for your existing or new coil.

 

The 123 system (and looks like this one too) are incredibly simple installations that don't require any of the other pieces or fabrication, while offering a significant improvement in ignition timing and overall engine performance.  All at a cost that is typically a whole lot less than a fully built out Megasquirt system.

 

These kinds of systems that drive off the camshaft are absolutely a performance improvement.  It's just that a full blown Megasquirt setup has greater potential because it is a completely modular, build-it-yourself system, but it comes with the liability of requiring a fair amount of expertise to build, install and tune the system.  Put more simply, these camshaft driven systems offer more bang-for-your-buck to the typical purchaser, when compared to a Megasquirt conversion.

 

Jose

Can't you just get 36-1 wheels in the junkyard? I have several of them out of Ford Escorts. They can't be that uncommon and they take ~10min to pull if you have the right tools with you. IIRC the Ford wheel fit very very close on the M10 crank. 

 

Is this system (in this post) wasted spark?

[LimeySteve]

Yes it is  waste spark, I wondered why my Snap on Timing light was showing double RPM's but the in car tach was spot on DOH !

[DaHose]

You can get the wheel from a junkyard for sure.  Mounting it requires some work.  If you don't have a lathe, I think you would be best off just buying a main pulley from someone like 02again ($230 with hall sensor and mount).

 

Jose

[ash00]

Dang it, and here I am moving forward with Megajolt like a sucker.  Interested to follow this unit!

[Harv]

This and the 123 are definitely an improvement over distributer ignitions of old. However the crank angle sensor ignition will always be more accurate and in the end better.

But

How much better is the question? So if your running a 284, 292 and dual 40's or a single downdraught any of the two above will be more than fine.

My 2C.

John

[Vicleonardo1]

He has tried the programmable one but as not everyone can be guaranteed to know how to do it correctly & use a dyno etc they decided to have it pre programmed , they will do a custom curve per your engine parameters & he can handle boost as he has already asked the question regarding  that. I went with the Tii curve & my car is vastly improved one noticeable change is no more sneezing on deceleration & a smooth acceleration too.

 

He has asked for another volunteer to test a 2nd unit , a daily driver under all conditions & a hands on guy to be able to handle a situation in the field IF there is a problem being able to switch back to previous ign on the road . Let me know if you are interested & we can pick one of you who are interested. My drive to work from stone cold yesterday was flawless , I'll be doing some freeway & hard acceleration tests this weekend.

 

I'll be posting up a video so you all can see/hear how this unit performs.

Limey,

 

Just wondering if it comes with set program parameters, would I have the option to change it and pick a different curve when I make mods to my engine?

[LimeySteve]

I'm not sure, that's a question for Lew at  sales@compu-tronix.com.

[doog]

Limey,

 

Any updates to your experience after a couple of weeks of driving?