electrical and ignition Dizzy'aster

[Dave_PA]

So yesterday after getting attacked by bees cutting the grass I was on my way to the hardware store to seek some redemption...It was nice out (not raining) so I jumped in the 02 but didn't make it farther than down my front street....

 

When safely on the side of the road and immediately saw this...it was sheared in 1/2 completely around the dist. The cut is right at the plate that the weights are on. Also it's covered in an oil metal type 

 

<sarcasm>Sans The Hack Mechanic, I'm pretty sure this is not rebuild able. </sarcasm>

 

For options I'm either going to go with the IE option or find an 002 and have Adv. Dist rebuild it. 

 

Anyone have an idea of what could have caused this? I really want to find out what would have done this so I can prevent it from happening again for me and for others.

 

Thanks guys!

Dave

 

 

 

[Guest_anonymous]

You can always sink the guts into a different housing

['76mintgrün'02]

Wow, it got sliced right off of there!

Do you have a photo of the underside of the top half?

[Simeon]

Are you missing the springs on the throw-out weights? Looks like they have been running around the inside and buzz sawed their way through. That is a first for me! How was it running prior?

[Dave_PA]

@Dar - good point, but I'd rather make it easier to know what is in there vs. guessing for the next time it needs work.

 

@76Mintrun'02 - It was pretty unreal. It's almost like someone pulled the dist, cut it with a fine too blade on a bandsaw and put it back together. I don't have one now, but I can get one for tonight.

 

Any idea on what could have made this happen?

[Dev02]

I think it might have been a mini-Jedi with a very small light saber...

 

Seriously though I'm with Simeon, I think it has been cutting from the inside out for a long time. VERY weird. On a related note I have the IE Dizzy and it's been working great for me. The only issue I had was the O-ring not fitting correctly. I ended up using the one off my old Dizzy. i have heard they fixed this issue though.

[Dave_PA]

Thanks Simeon and Dev02. 

 

Simeon I'll have to take a look for sure it was late and the holiday weekend took a toll on me. Up until this it was running pretty good. Nothing that I could hear, or crazy. Your right, something was really working itself around in there to make a cut that was that precise. 

 

Dev02, That's exactly what my 10 year old son's take on this was. Your right, something was really working itself around in there to make a cut that was that precise. 

 

Thanks for the info on the IE dizzy. I'm either going to go that route or see if I can get an 002 and have Adv. Dist rebuild it for me (but they are now like 6 weeks out on a rebuild). 

 

Thanks guys for all the help. This is still the greatest board out there.

 

Dave

[Simeon]

Good excuse to get a 123Tune programmable distributor .

[Buckeye]

Take the rest of distributor out its housing. Check condition of the helical gear. Share some pictures of the gear and what under distributor cap. That shaft must have ton of radial play in it and was wobbling long time ago. Can you confirm.

I couldn't wait six weeks to have mine rebuild, so decided I will rebuild it myself.

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/_/technical-articles/electrical-and-ignition/ignition-distributor-rehab-r172

Good Luck!

[Mike Self]

+2 on Simeon's theory.  From your picture, the centrifugal weights are missing their springs.  The weights are steel; the dizzy housing, pot metal.  So you were operating a lathe without even knowing it.  Never seen that before, but I suppose there's a first for everything.  Funny you didn't notice the engine running strangely without those centrifugal weights advancing/retarding the ignition timing properly.

 

Actually all you need to fix that one is a good used housing and some centrifugal weight springs...

 

Look at it this way:  you now have a nicely sectioned distributor for the next "show and tell" tech session!  

 

cheers

mike
 

[TobyB]

That's happened before.

Usually the noise is pretty ugly, and you catch it before it does the light saber thing.

 

But yes, the weights have not only lost their springs, but they've worn through their stops AND the outer housing.

In fact, I can't see much of the stops left in your pic.  Certainly it's been at it from all the aluminum powder all over everything.

 

I'm going to channel CD here and go on a mini tirade- (in general, not aimed at you in particular, Dave, and only because it's been a while since it's been said) :

 

Distributors are consumable. 

They don't last as long as a set of rings or valve guides.

After 50k, they're due for a rebuild/bush/spring depending on which

generation they are.  At 100k, they're not working remotely like they

should be.  This here's proof that sometime after that, they saw themselves in half...

If your distributor's not working like it should, you've got half (or less) of what

a 2002 really can be.

(end of tirade)

 

Anyway, along with brakes, clutch, pedal pivots, blah de blah,

your dizzy is something that's worth examining closely when you buy the car.

And then every 50k or so later- more often if you track it regularly.

I got something like 5 years out of a racing one...

 

Whut I tink,

 

t

[kaptanoglu]

Good excuse to get a 123Tune programmable distributor .

+1 on that idea. You might do a thread search for 123 Ignition. Several of us have had good luck with them.

[Dave_PA]

Ah Toby,

Thanks for the immortal words of CD...I DO miss those CD posts. Thank you for holding onto those to jog our memory. 

 

I did think about 123Ignition, as an option, but in the end found two 002's one that is in good shape and one that needs rebuilt. I'll use the good shape one until the rebuilt one is complete. This way I'm covered, and have a spare. I just glad I'll be able to make it to the Pgh Vintage Grand Prix this year!

 

Buckeye & Mike, that's the same thing that Jim at Adv. Dist. said, but here is the funny thing, I didn't hear anything bad and the shaft isn't wobbly up and down and fractionally. 

 

Now onto reading up on setting the timing. I THINK Mr. Kreeger did nice write up on that when he built his car years ago.

 

Thanks guys!
Dave

[cda951]

That's happened before.

Usually the noise is pretty ugly, and you catch it before it does the light saber thing.

 

But yes, the weights have not only lost their springs, but they've worn through their stops AND the outer housing.

In fact, I can't see much of the stops left in your pic.  Certainly it's been at it from all the aluminum powder all over everything.

 

I'm going to channel CD here and go on a mini tirade- (in general, not aimed at you in particular, Dave, and only because it's been a while since it's been said) :

 

Distributors are consumable. 

They don't last as long as a set of rings or valve guides.

After 50k, they're due for a rebuild/bush/spring depending on which

generation they are.  At 100k, they're not working remotely like they

should be.  This here's proof that sometime after that, they saw themselves in half...

If your distributor's not working like it should, you've got half (or less) of what

a 2002 really can be.

(end of tirade)

 

Anyway, along with brakes, clutch, pedal pivots, blah de blah,

your dizzy is something that's worth examining closely when you buy the car.

And then every 50k or so later- more often if you track it regularly.

I got something like 5 years out of a racing one...

 

Whut I tink,

 

t

 

Nice one!

 

The distributor is perhaps the most under-maintained part of an older engine. A drop or two of oil on the felt wick under the distributor rotor every oil change goes a LONG way towards keeping these things working properly, but hardly anyone remembers to do it, and most of the M10 distributors out there are pretty sloppy. 

 

They eventually do need a refresh/rebuild, which can be difficult unless you have a box full of random old distributors laying around to pillage parts from like I do at my shop . . . . plus a bunch of time to take them apart to figure out what you need, which I don't have. Sending out your distributor to a specialist for a proper rebuild is a wise investment. These engines can run surprisingly well with a completely worn out distributor, but it is amazing how much better they run when everything is right.

 

Chris

[Dave_PA]

I figured that I should wrap this up for those following it, and for those who search for this later on. In the end, I got a fantastic deal on an 002 dist from Tom ('76Mintgrun'02) who hooked me up in a big way. When working on pulling out the epic fail distributor, I carefully looked at the parts from the Crane Fireball Ignition and the wires on the optical pick up were worn pretty thin, so I ordered a new one from Crane and used that on the install.

 

First on the list was to find TDC on the car. There are several great links on the faq for this already so I won't go into it, but it's not complicated, just think through it and look for the marks and numbers on the nose of the cam.

 

2 10 MM sockets do the trick to loosen the old dist and pull it straight out. For me I went slower so that any little 'bits' from the old dist wouldn't end up in the engine. 

 

Onto the Replacement distributor.

Do yourself the favor and order a new oil o-ring on the shaft. Food for thought, it's never good to blow out your O ring. It's a few bucks but the insurance payoff is huge. Replace it while you are in there. Setting up the crane optics w/the distributor out of the car was way easier than when I installed it w/the dist still in the car. 

 

Before you drop the new distributor in, LUBE THE SHAFT and the O ring!! Ok, there I said it.  Also look for the markings on the top of the dist for the 'notch' and remember you want the rotor to match up w/that mark when it's all said and done. Every 02's BFF, Keith Kreeger covers this in the link below, so no need to listen to me. It will take a few times to get this right. but w/the shaft lubed it will make this easier. 

 

http://www.2002tii.org/kb/346

 

In the end this wasn't as complex or scary of a job as I built it up to be in my mind. Just read what others on the faq have posted, and have fun w/it. 

 

The biggest lesson on this for me was, in the immortal words of the great CD...This IS a wearable item on the car. So w/Pickolly's help, I've got an extra as a backup. 

 

Thanks Paul Wegweiser and Brad Day for all the help & being my 'measure 10 times, cut once' soundboards. Two seriously awesome guys.

 

--Dave

 

 

 

This past week, I put together