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Guest Anonymous

musings on suspension, wheel/tire combos, and speed-long

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Guest Anonymous

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There's a lot of questions re: how to set up a 2002's suspension, or what tire/wheel combo to use. Naturally there are as many opinions as readers. However, one needs to carefully examine their needs when considering an upgrade or change. This last Arkansas trip made that very clear to me. My car has an Ireland sway bar on front, more or less stock sway bar on back (fell off for this trip:), Bilstein HDs, cut stock springs, and fifteen inch wheels with Pirelli P700zs-195/50. Some others were driving what appeared to be stock set ups-thirteen inch wheels and tires, no big sway bars, shocks? My point is this. We were all running through those curves at a pretty good clip. I would rate all of our driving skills as very similar. No one was notably faster than anyone else at 8/10ths pace. But-above that, there was a difference. On one corner there was a strange hump in the apex. I got tossed but was able to correct and stay in my lane while battling a little oversteer. The fellow behind me, however, got thrown way wide. I believe he was on fourteen inch wheels. One thing that was very obvious to me re: his car was that he would benefit from a big sway bar. I believe that is what made the difference between my line and his. I didn't see how the more stock cars faired on that particular curve but in other areas it was clear that at max the little tires were at their limit well before mine. Point number two-these cars in stock form handle damn well. For most people it's all they need. Unless you autocross or want to be at faster at max speeds on back roads, you may want to consider staying stock. Why? Because you will be way more comfortable for 95% of your driving. I like the way my car is set up. I do want it to run faster through the curves and at autocross. BUT-I am envious of those folks running stock rigs on their drive home. My advice to someone who wants to improve their handling would be to start with good tires in whatever size diameter you are running-critical. My next step would be a big front sway bar-keeps things flatter. In my mind this made the biggest change in my car's handling. Next somewhat stiffer shocks. Next bigger wheels with smaller sidewall. Next-sky's the limit,

Bil-sports, coil overs, camber plates, the list is endless. But know this-it's a compromise. Handling vs. comfort. As one goes up-the other goes down. No two ways about it.

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Guest Anonymous

...for performance and ride is a good driver's seat - Recaro, Scheel, etc.

Stock suspension has more than enough travel to help over rough surfaces and dips. Might have fared better than the modded cars in that dip you mentioned.

Delia Wolfe

'73tii

Inka (aka "Orange Julius")

#2762756

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Guest Anonymous

...that's my point-how often do you hit such road anomolies at those speeds? Therefore, no need to do the mods in most cases. No stock 02 or tii will keep up with a modified 02 at those speeds. They aren't meant to. But-for most driving they handle very well and are more comfortable at most speeds and conditions.

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Guest Anonymous

stock suspension is nice... I do enjoy the nice smooth highway ride... now I like to punish my car, autox.. track days etc.. the coilovers are really nice with the stiff rear springs.. the one thing that will come and bite you in the arse is when your suspension is too stiff... mine is on the virge of that... it begins to dance over bumps but grips like a SOB on the smooth road... so I don't know if it's a good or a bad thing... just that when you go modding your suspension looking for better handling.. start with stuff that's adjustable.. the adjustable swaybars are a very nice upgrade.. you can then tune the car to how your city's pavement is.. I set my car up on super firm cause jacksonville is very smooth.. but now they're doing tons of construction on my side of town so my suspension is little to rough.. downside.. I do enjoy it though.. rides like a gokart... I haven't found an end to the grip yet and I'm on street tires.. I can't imagin how it will be on race slicks... needless if I was gonna stick my neck out on the line and list in priorty a begining to end of suspension upgrading I would put it like this.

Stage 1 (sport)

a. Upgraded Adjustable Sway Bars (front and rear with urethane endlinks)

b. Upgraded Springs (Eibachs, H&Rs, STs, Cut Stocks)

Stage 2 (auto-x)

a. Upgraded Dampners (KYB's or bilsteins)

b. Urethane Bushings

c. Increase front camber (solid -1 degree camber plate or adjustables, kmac, bent strut tube)

Stage 3 (track day/ race)

a. Urethane or Solid diff hangers

b. Adjustable Coilovers in the front (and rear.. see note)

c. Matched set of custom rate springs (along with a trip to scales to setup proper corner weights)

*note coilovers on all 4 corners are not required but they are cool none the less. you can shim the weight of the car with spring pads that came stock in the back if you need to adjust rear side to side corner weight.. also rideheight will be limited mostly to the compressed length of the 5" spring in the back as dramatic changes in front coilovers will pitch the car instead of raise and lower*

d. Adjustable rear subframe to remove excess negative camber and adjust toe

e. solid rear subframe mounts

f. Adjustable camber plates

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Guest Anonymous

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URL: http://www.zeebuck.com/02bc/index.htm

A set of Bilsteins, Koni's, or KYB's. The stock shocks are not designed to handle a shorter, stiffer spring. The 2 biggest things that you can do to improve handling are tires, and shocks. This is assuming that the rest of your steering/suspension stuff is already in good shape.

Al

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Guest Anonymous

difference, even those Integra seats were an

improvement over stock, keeps the car on the

proper line by minimizing driver's input. Also

leather gloves are a good thing if you are driving

aggresively. Next: good rubber and correct tire

pressure, then the nut behind the steering wheel.

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Guest Anonymous

Tires and wheels will lead to the never ending debate of 13" vs 15" and how yoko's vs michelins vs potenzas.. Almost all those tires have a different spring rate in the tire so it will change suspension as well but if everything stays the same.. then this would be a good order.. I know many people running on cut springs and stock dampners.. when you swap springs people usually swap the dampner while they're at it cause it's all apart.. it's only ment as a guideline not a definitive end all be all of ranking..

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Guest Anonymous

Cant wait for 1st drive on my new setup. All new springs, Bilst HD's, all urethane, 22mmF 19mmR sway, big brakes, fixed neg camberF, 14"BBSrz (***from Dave Varco***VERY NICE)w/ yokos. Stiffness everywhere!

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Guest Anonymous

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a good shock and a god fotprint make a big difference to an otherwise stock 02 suuspension. my sahara has tokico blues. 14" 195s, and St springs. the springs are not that aggressive. it performed well in auto x and thunderhil school. BUT, my Inka which is Korman stage 3 ( no coil over)bil sports, korman springs ( aggressive), front camber - 2.0, adjustable rear sway, big bars, stiff set up 15 inch 225, well- that is an another world- not to bad on street, but definately more suited for the track where the pros made it dance and go fast. actually for all round- my sahara is superior set up.

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Guest Anonymous

73-76 USA cars have stock springs that make the car ride about an inch higher than 68-72. This is independent of the spacers fitted to all US cars. The reason was to raise bumper heights to Federal minimums (MG did the same thing with their MGBs in '74). Fit stock springs from a 72 or earlier car and lower your later car an inch...cheap!

Mike

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Guest Anonymous

....that stock suspension with springs that offer more travel may have helped in that cornering situation. That situation was exactly where a modified set-up like mine, held the line where many other 2002s with stock (or close) had a serious problem. But, I think we agree that the stock Tii suspension is excellent for most situations. My main point is for people considering changing their suspensions. Carefully consider your driving environment. Change what BMW did only if you are auto crossing, racing, or need a flat out handler on back roads like our Arkansas trip. But know that the changes have consequences that affect everyday driving.

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Guest Anonymous

stock suspension "may" have fared better. It is my opinion and from my experience that more suspension travel "may" be helpful in such situtations. I've seen a few stiffly sprung and lowered cars launch themselves over a rise, sometimes with devastating results.

By your own admission you stated that you didn't see how the stock (less modified) cars got through the corner, so you don't know. Obviously, you think that these cars didn't do as well as your modified setup. This is conjecture on your part, or more specifically, your opinion.

Suffice to say we have a difference of opinion.

My opinion is my opinion. How dare you suggest that my opinion is "not true." Maybe you dismiss other opinions from women with whom you disagree, but don't do it to me, Mister.

D

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Guest Anonymous

....I'll be happy to clarify "lady".

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