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Guest Anonymous

Some concerns...

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Guest Anonymous

Upon closer inspection, a few things have come

up, some minor, a couple potentially major (for me

right now).

What the heck is a kugelfischer?!

Well, it makes a lot of noise - like it's louder than

the engine when the car is idling. Is this normal?

The nose and front fenders have been replaced.

the door panel backs are warped, but the vinyl is

good.

The alternator is noisy.

It has a K & N cone filter & the crank case vent is

open to the engine compartment. I was told it

needs an OEM air cleaner... how much?

The turn signal dashboard light is in-op., but the

signal indicators work. The dash light blinks

once??

Oh, the hood and trunk lids are rusty around the

edge seams.

But, the tires are good, new Dinan springs, newish

Bilstein sport shocks and struts, good brakes w/

stainless lines, good exhaust system,

transmission, drive shaft, differential and half

shafts. Newish fuel tank & pump.

Carpet is decent. Interior is good. Glass is good.

Windows and door stops work.

I'm most curious about the kugelfischer.

I'm really excited and anxious to get a 2002, but it

doesn't have to be this one. Even though I would

be pretty bummed. It's really cute and drives well

and has lots of character, like all do. I need one

that can serve as a daily driver immediately.

Any and all info will help.

Thanks,

Corine

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Guest Anonymous

I'll chime in where I can...

Upon closer inspection, a few things have come

up, some minor, a couple potentially major (for me

right now).

What the heck is a kugelfischer?!

That is the mechanical fuel injection pump. They will last >150,000 miles without a rebuild (which may be $1000). Look at Bay Area 02 site articles, one of the few remaining specialists to rebuild these things in in the bay area, I think. They interviewed him sometime last year.

Well, it makes a lot of noise - like it's louder than

the engine when the car is idling. Is this normal?

The kugelfisher makes noise? This sounds strange. It is belt driven so there may be a failing belt. This is time consuming to replace as the belt is under a cover.

Clarify this problem -- the pump itself should not be noisy.

The nose and front fenders have been replaced.

the door panel backs are warped, but the vinyl is

good.

Yep. Welcome to 30 year old cars. ;-)

The alternator is noisy.

Bearings? Alternators are about $150 or so. Good upgrades are available too (more amps).

It has a K & N cone filter & the crank case vent is

open to the engine compartment. I was told it

needs an OEM air cleaner... how much?

The OEM airbox will be a bit hard to find perhaps. Whatever the seller wants for one. Maybe market value is $50 to $100. Many (and me) dislike K7N filters. They can allow more dirt into the motor if not properly maintained (they need to be oiled and cleaned). This should not be on the car -- whoever had it put on defeated a well-engineered air filter/air box system. Be suspicious, this is an indicator of someone that does not know tii's.

The turn signal dashboard light is in-op., but the

signal indicators work. The dash light blinks

once??

Bad grounds. They all do that. There is a fairly simple fix involving installing another ground wire to the instrument panel. See the archives.

Oh, the hood and trunk lids are rusty around the

edge seams.

Hmm. Gotta see that one. Look for more rust in other places. Look at the inside lower door edges. Look at the rocker panels and shock towers, prefereably with a hammer.

But, the tires are good, new Dinan springs, newish

Bilstein sport shocks and struts, good brakes w/

stainless lines, good exhaust system,

transmission, drive shaft, differential and half

shafts. Newish fuel tank & pump.

Nice.

Carpet is decent. Interior is good. Glass is good.

Windows and door stops work.

I'm most curious about the kugelfischer.

I'm really excited and anxious to get a 2002, but it

doesn't have to be this one. Even though I would

be pretty bummed. It's really cute and drives well

and has lots of character, like all do. I need one

that can serve as a daily driver immediately.

Any and all info will help.

... Take your time. Others will come up too. If u really want this one, have someone help u check it out. Someone not emotionally attached to it.

Thanks,

Corine

Cheers,

Ray

ex '73 tii for 15 years

'73 ///M2002 ;-)

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Guest Anonymous

just kidding! i agree with your assessment entirely

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Guest Anonymous

If the flashers work, but the indicator works only once, or nt at all, then you should change the flasher realy, located under the dash on the left hand kick panel. Some people would tell you to open it and file the relay's contact, but maybe it is time to change it after 30 years...

I changed mine and I am very happy to see the indicator blink properly.

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Guest Anonymous

Contact me off-board if you'd like.

Delia

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Guest Anonymous

Contrary to popular belief there isn't a perfect 02. If

you are paying less than 5K expect to spend 2/4

grand. If you are paying $5k to $10 then expect 1/2,

but nothing if you are paying more than $10k. It IS

a 30 year old car so it will need some inmediate

attention. There are 3 things that will kill a 2002: a

tired engine, a structurally rusted body and smog

issues, anything else can be fixed cheap if have a

set of sockets and wrenches and patience.

Have you had this baby 80mph on third gear?

Does it get there fast? Does it feel that it wants to

go?

The kookofish "noise" might be the timing chain

needing adjustment, never heard of one making

noise, unless the engine is extremely quite, which

is a plus???.

Rust under the lip of the hood is typical, if that's all

you got after 30 years, it will be good for another

30. Neutralize it and drive.

The K&N filter replace with stock, seen them in

ebay for less than $100. If he couldn't getting

running right, that's why he's selling it, good news

for you. Which brings the argument tii vs

carburated. You are buying complexity, potentially

more expensive repairs and more hp on top end. If

you are not convinced about this one do NOT write

off carburated cars, they can be just as fun.

Hope this helps...

Michael

72 tii (Bacchus)

72 tii

72 carburated 38/38

70 in the works (maybe duals!)

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Guest Anonymous

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the blinker issue is probably the flasher relay: classic symptom: plug in replacement= 40 bucks.

engine noise at idle is probably either the chain you are not used to hearing or the valve train you are not used to hearing: both typical for 2002s

body work= well, indicates a smack certainly- need to know if it is holding up OK, you can live with that.

Kugelfischer pump is arcane science. all you want to know about this is that it is functioning properly; pumps are expensive components to fiddle with if they are wounded. you may just need a mech to set up the pump properly and then you can basically forget it. dont fiddle around with it. it is black art best left to the few who understand them and who can make them wotk correctly. threare basic maintenance thngs thast Delia can tell you about. There are relacement pumps around if it is a bad one. Exepnsive. Unlikely, though. The pump belt is a very thin and small belt that you wont hear, and that probably needs to be replaced and they are avaiable. but it requires exposing the area which requires taking a few things off to get to it. Delia can help you about all that stuff.

all the goodies are really nice= bonus.

surface rust: you can deal with that. not life threatening.

k and n filter: i agree- wrong for tiis. owner either does not know what is good for the car or is trying for a go fast part that actually works in an opposite manner. Like others have said, proper cannister and filters are avaiable: in fact- i have access to one I could sell to you at market price( cheaper actually- never abuse newbies)

you want a prepurshcse done on this car. i imagine you are looking at an asking price in the 5 k area; that warrants a prepurchase in my book. Prepurchase typically cost around 100 bucks. should be slpit between parties

finally: there are other tii cars out there. sure, they may cost more initially, but, they may require less money to bring up to spec. A turn- key car is optimal, but it will be more expensive,unless you are absolutely set on a tii, you can get a lot of worth for your dollar in the 2002 market. Carb'd cars can be as fast/faster than a tii,( mine is) and have all the goodies and more. something to consider.You will just have learn to live with the constant question and answer: " is is a tii? ... No, BUT...( questioner is gone by now). lol_ i have written about tii envy before: i know the syndrome well.

do not feel pressured into buying any car. Always, take a step back, try to be objective about the vehicle you are considering. So many dollars have been wasted and headachesa created by buyers overlooking obvious faults because they have "fallen" for a car.It is really tough to do, that is why you need an objective, knowledgeable person to look at/inspect/drive the vehicle. In other words, have a "geek" look at it and drive it, and then make your decision. ( i include myselfin the "geek" group)

good luck- lots of people on the board are hoping you get a solid car that does not require lots of post purchase care. Contact Delia: she knows all about tiis and she can help you consider the car rationally.

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Guest Anonymous

I guess that the tensioner must be pretty worn, letting a loose timing chain rattle like hell...

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Guest Anonymous

I think it's valuable to learn to love the cars BECAUSE of their unique flaws ('cause they all have 'em) not the lack of them

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Guest Anonymous

Check the front rails very closely, the fact that the nose and fenders were replaced is not bad itself, if done properly, but if the rails are still damaged, you have problems. Also the nose should match the year of the car, plastic grilles for 74 and up only.

Bring it to Hollister, if you can, we'll set it up on the shop lift and check it for you, you can also compare it to my 02's and specially my tii (Bacchus), I just had it 80mph on third, I am still smiling...

cheers!

Michael

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Guest Anonymous

I do have experience with one 2002, my own. But, it's got

dual 40's, 292 cam, Stahl header, Tii dizzy, and 9.5:1

compression ratio. It's a '68 with not much from '68 left. Until

last night I had never driven any other 2002 than my own.

Driving comparison: My '68 has at least 25hp and 30lbs

torque on this Tii. But, this Tii is much smoother and much

more civilized... I expected the Tii to have more punch???

Should my carb/cam/header/compression combination really

be that much more powerful than a typical Tii? I only ask as a

reference point and I'm not trying to start a carb -VS- Kookoo

injection debate;-)

The car stops great, has excellent brakes. Stainless flex

lines... newish.

The car drives nicely, firm suspension, not harsh at all,

excellent rebound and dampening characteristic from the

Bilstein Sports. Has no significant play in the steering... feels

nice. The car would be a nice daily driver in this respect.

The bad stuff: The BIG NOISE is emanating from the

Kugelfischer/alternator area and is quite significant. I did the

old screwdriver to the ear test and was able to isolate the

noise to those two items. Both are making noise, one louder

than the other, but it is impossible to tell which is louder.

The noise itself sounds to be bad bushings/bearings. The

noise aint pretty and it's twice as loud as "normal" valve train

noise.

The rust is kinda ugly, but not the end of the world... I guess.

Shock towers are solid and floor pan is solid. The spare tire

well has quite a few pinholes and some significant scale.

There is also a 1" dia. hole near the spare tire well. The

rockers are pretty solid except for where the front fenders

meet them; there are a few easily seen small holes here. The

doors are bubbling at the front bottom corners and a few

other areas along the bottom door skin seam. The hood and

trunk lid do have holes that penetrate through both sides,

IMHO would need to be replaced before a decent paint job

was performed, as there are many small holes just waiting to

poke through. The left front frame rail appears to have been

repaired at some point (patch has been welded on). I can

only guess this was part of the nose replacement after the

collision, as the welds were performed by the same monkey

(welds are sub par)... nose is on straight though and all

seems match up fairly well... It is possible that the frame rails

were bent and were then straightened. The car tracks

straight, tires look to be wearing ok, outer tie rods are

adjusted similarly... this leads me to believe the frame/

unibody is straight. Or am I assuming too much???

The E12 head on this Tii was rebuilt within the last 10 years

or so and there is NO varnish inside, just nice clean

aluminum and steel. This is a plus! Car does smoke a little

when first started when cold.

There are also many small things wrong that are somewhat

easily repaired: Funky seat belt operation, in-op defrost flap,

in-op heat control (stuck full-on), turn indicator dash light

funky, needs proper airbox, and interior light in-op.

The big question: Is this car worth $4800.?????????

-E

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