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Thoughts on Turbocharging


remout

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Is it doable to build a dual purpose turbo motor?

1. Runs on pump gas most of the time and is generally drivable.

2. Occasionally runs on racing fuel with a goal of say 150 - 170 RWHP?

 

If so would it look anything like this:

 

Low compression, wouldn't the stock 8:1 be just about right?

Waste gate and boost controller.

EFI via Megasquirt 3

Blow through single throttle body

 

Would it need different injectors for each purpose?

 

Thanks for kicking this idea around!

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hah... 150-170hp doesn't need race fuel... a small turbo on a relatively stock fuel injected motor will make more than that. Dual maps is just a silly idea. a properly set up turbo will work great under all conditions and will not need another map. You need to do some research. Tons of turbo 2002 builds around to check out. Also grab yourself a few books on the subject. All fuel injected systems are "blow through" systems. I don't meant to offend you, but without doing extensive research the chances of you (or anyone) turbocharging a car without it blowing up as soon as you first hit boost are slim to none. You need to take into account ignition retard under boost, increased fuel requirements, greater driveline stress... the list goes on and on. As Jim said, no secondary injectors needed. I would even argue you only need one ignition map. 
 

Of course, if you wanted to run race fuel occasionally, you would need to take the time to tune the car for that fuel. More ignition advance will be possible since it will be less prone to detonation... but really I wouldn't even consider race fuel unless if you want to make huge numbers (+300hp) and even then its not absolutely mandatory. 

 

With that said, for your power goals, a very basic turbo setup will get you there. is it worth it to go through all the trouble for such a relatively modest gain? Thats up to you, but personally it's not worth it to me. thats a lot of money for very little power. Then again, once it is built, adding more boost is very easy so long as the engine and associated components are up to the task. 

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I know it's obviously not the same car, but my Miata put down 247whp/222tq on a stock 1.8 with a GT2560, intercooler, Hydra ECU, and good exhaust I drove it on a 1000 mile trip in 95 degree weather and it was perfect. It was 12psi and could decimate cars costing 30 times my cost. Easily a DD but track capable. You should have no problem getting 180-200whp on a 2 litre M10. However: power, reliability, inexpensive--pick two. Do it once and do it right and remember that a good tune is the key to the universe.

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I know it's obviously not the same car, but my Miata put down 247whp/222tq on a stock 1.8 with a GT2560, intercooler, Hydra ECU, and good exhaust I drove it on a 1000 mile trip in 95 degree weather and it was perfect. It was 12psi and could decimate cars costing 30 times my cost. Easily a DD but track capable. You should have no problem getting 180-200whp on a 2 litre M10. However: power, reliability, inexpensive--pick two. Do it once and do it right and remember that a good tune is the key to the universe.

 

Like a Miata, I want light, nimble, and great handling. I've raced low HP, light cars (SCCA ITS RX7) and much heavier cars with lots of power. I find light and nimble more fun. Our local track, NOLA Motorsports Park is a bit of a HP track and the 02 needs a little help, but not much, getting down the long front straight. 

 

I've had success in the past with motors by over building and under stressing them. From reading these replies it seems like my goal is obtainable and that the M10 is a strong base.

 

There's two things I'm not finding here from searching. Owners thoughts on how the car performs after turbo charging. A well received source for exhaust manifolds, maybe I'll need to build one? There's plenty on ebay but they all seem to feature bling over function.

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without doing extensive research the chances of you (or anyone) turbocharging a car without it blowing up as soon as you first hit boost are slim to none.

...unless you have a brain in your head, a boost gauge and a wideband oxygen sensor.  And a bit of feeling in your right foot.

 

Then you might build something unworkable, but it's not going to detonate the first time it goes over atmospheric.

 

The M10 bottom end is hellaciously stout, and the top end doesn't mind the pressure as long as revs are reasonable.

 

Then it's just thermal management- keeping spark timing conservative, fuelling adequate, and not trying to run 3 bar.

 

"How it performs" is really a function of what you build.  A larger open turbo will add top end.  A smaller, more restrictive hot side

will add torque.  The possibilities are almost endless when you start playing with sizing and configuration.

 

However, just as Gordon and Rocan say, if you can't control it, it'll melt itself.  A friend, who learned a lot about turboing the 

Z car, is adamant that you should start by fitting your EFI system to your normally- aspirated junk engine, learn how to use

it, learn how to map it, and once you can get your A/F ratio to adjust by .2% RELIABLY, then you can stick the turbo(s)

on the junk engine, and try mapping that.  

 

As to manifolds, weld ells let you make whatever you want.  I gas- welded the one I made (for a Volvo B20) and that worked out great.

 

I think you can make one car do what you want- be a streetable track car.  In the engine department.

As to suspension, I never found that a street car was much fun on the track, and around here, it's

too 3rd world in the pavement department to try driving a nice, trackable car on the street.

 

My experience, anyway...

 

t

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I had Koni adjustables and slightly stiffer springs on the Miata, and if that worked in NYC and on the track, more than likely a similar setup would work for you. I also had some seriously upgraded sway bars. This means the car rode OK and could handle the power, but was great in the turns with no lean. Wilwood front brakes, upgraded rears, upgraded clutch, A/F, boost, and temp gauge are mandatory for you. I would put disc brakes in rear of 2002.

 

You'll need a base tune to get the car running after you put the turbo on (without boost) and then you have to put it on a dyno. A good tuner will get it pretty close in 2 hours. Then do some on the road tuning with the tuner in your car on a laptop. Once you get it really close, depending on the ECU you are using, you can use Autotune (like Beyonce) to fine turn drivability.

 

I would be looking at a GT2554 for instant spool and good torque but lower total HP, or a GT2560 like I had, which will spool full boost by 3300 on a 2.0 and is good for 300hp.

 

Maybe contact these guys for a manifold. They are legendary in the Miata world:

 

http://www.artechfabrication.com/

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My postings my say "Newbie" but I may have some experience to share.

 

My last "Fun" car was an Audi 225 TT, after extensive research I put together a GTRS Turbo kit. This went from 225hp/240tq up to 380hp/409tq, daily driven without incident. This took many build hours, many software hours and multiple shop trips for Vacuum/Boost leaks. In the end after 3 years of my wife hounding me to sell it I let it go.

What did I learn? NEVER big turbo again…….For a 2002 if I wanted big HP#’s, honestly I would do it easy and just install a Honda F20 and be done. The Turbo route is a much longer and twister way than you may think.

 

What you think:

Turbo

Manifold

Exhaust

Intercooler

Fueling

 

What you don’t realize:

Motor mounts (Full Race with added vibration and sound)

Oil-cooler

Connecting Rods

Pistons

Clutch

Big Brakes All around

Race Brake Pads

Front and Rear Strut brace

Maybe Roll cage for chassis stiffness

Sport seats to hold you in

More fueling cost than you thought

Transmission Mounts

LSD Rear end

Beefier suspension

Full exhaust for flow (2.5 -3”  turbo dependant)

V-Bands for all turbo and exhaust connections

 

Then you can work on your fuel mapping…….

 

So that’s why I say just bolt in the Dreaded F20 for 250hp and 9K redline, with cheap Honda replacement parts

 

FYI: my wife loved the Idea of a 2002

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