racing and safety Driving Lights Under Early Bumper?

[PaulTWinterton]

I just noticed that there are factory holes UNDER my front (chrome) bumper. I presume they are for mounting driving lights below the bumper.

I have never seen lights mounted there on the early cars.

Does anyone have any pictures, current or vintage that show lights below the bumper?

[adawil2002]

Those holes are for rectangular fog lights. Found this by searching.

 

[Conserv]

In general, fog lights are most effective when deployed close to the ground, hence their frequent placement below bumpers. Driving lights, on the other hand, work well from above bumpers.

Steve

[achman]

That's my green '73 Tii.

Yes, traditionally yellow fogs would be mounted low, and driving lights mounted higher. However, I liked how these looked. My driving lights (below) only come on when the high beams are on, while the yellow "fogs" are wired to a stealth switch that replaced the dummy switch on the center console, and can be turned on anytime. They are german, from the period, and I have never seen another pair. When all the lights are on, I can definitely see the road.

[02Les]

Factory holes! Really?

[achman]

At night..

[Conserv]

That's my green '73 Tii.

Yes, traditionally yellow fogs would be mounted low, and driving lights mounted higher. However, I liked how these looked.

And I've done the same with fogs on the '73, despite knowing that sub-bumper is optimal for fogs!

Regards,

Steve

[PaulTWinterton]

Are square Cibie lights from the period?

And yes, "factory holes"! I noticed them while crawling under the car to plan my oil pan removal. Winter is finally here and my baby needs a new oil pan gasket.

[Conserv]

Are square Cibie lights from the period?And yes, "factory holes"! I noticed them while crawling under the car to plan my oil pan removal. Winter is finally here and my baby needs a new oil pan gasket.

Cibie Series 35 and Series 95 lights were in production in 1973. Both are rectangular and readily available in both used and NOS condition. Search eBay and you'll have your pick of prices and condition. On the Marchal side, the Series 850 and Series 950 rectangular lamps were available during the same period. Again, eBay!

I won't speak for Les, but I've seen lots of auxiliary light holes in '02 bumpers -- and drilled more than my share of them -- but I've never come across them on a part fresh from the factory. As I always say, "A lot happens to a car over the course of 40 years!" (I do adjust the number of years to the car I'm referring to!) And even an original owner doesn't remember everything. My illustration: I replaced the clutch in my '76 -- mine since new -- at 80K+ miles. I was pretty proud of my 80K clutch, given that I drive my cars fairly hard -- no, I had no idea that Mike would go like 250K miles on an '02 clutch -- but, lo and behold, I was going through my receipts one day recently and there, at 20K miles, the dealer replaced the clutch while swapping out synchros under warranty. I either wasn't focused that day or simply forgot! OK: 60K is pretty good for a clutch. No? I guess not.

First photo: Marchal 850 amber fogs on my '76 in April '77

Second photo: Cibie 35 amber fogs on my '76 today (they're awaiting sister lights in the form of Series 45 driving lights, mounted with through-grille brackets, to keep them company)

Good luck and regards,

Steve

Edited November 23, 2014 by Conserv

[nutbehindthewheel]

I'd bet the farm they're aftermarket holes

Seen a lot of new bumpers, holes for bolts to hold them together,

but no other factory holes for lights or anything else

[Mike Self]

The only holes in chrome bumpers from the factory are the two on the center face bar for mounting a German license plate.  If you examine those OEM holes carefully, you'll see the chrome plating extends into the hole itself, meaning the holes were drilled before the bumper was plated.  Bet your fog light mounting holes are a bit rusty around the edges!

 

I have a vintage 1970 factory accessory brochure that shows rectangular fog lights for below-bumper mounting.  I don't believe these early lights are halogen, just regular tungsten bulbs.  Later roundies--per the parts book--had accessory round fog lights that mounted on brackets that extended through the grilles and bolted to the hood hinge support brackets.  I believe someone on the FAQ has reproduced them.  I also think they were useable on squarelights.  Check Realoem to be sure.  

 

When my '69 was new, halogen lights were still very new and were only available with those long H1 bulbs which mounted vertically in the lamp vs horizontally with the smaller H2 bulbs.  I still have the Carello lamp I mounted on my '69 around June 1969--sadly the reflector is all corroded and new ones aren't available.  Since dual filament halogen bulbs hadn't been developed, halogen headlights actually had two bulbs, one for low and one for high beam.  IIRC the Cibie was called a Bi-Iode and the Marchal was an Ampilux.  They were the only two companies making halogen headlights then.  Others (Bosch, Carello etc) jumped in when the dual filament H3 bulb was developed in the early 70s.  

 

History lesson for today....

 

cheers

mike

[Conserv]

To Mike's point regarding the switchover from tungsten to halogen lighting, my copy of a British Cibie brochure, dated Autumn 1970 (first photo), shows a blend of tungsten and halogen lights: the Series 118 was offered as a rectangular tungsten light (primarily as a reversing lamp) while the Series 35 and Series 90 were simultaneously offered as rectangular halogen lights. But my copy of a U.S. Cibie brochure, dated 1974 (second photo), lists only halogen lights.

There's a 1986 Cibie catalog online which, amazingly, is little changed from the 1974 brochure! I'll see if I can find a link.

Regards,

Steve

Edited November 22, 2014 by Conserv

[PaulTWinterton]

Points taken.  In the mid-90's a van backed into me hooking its trailer ball under my bumper.  The driver pulled forward pulling me with them.  Only a foot or so, but distorted my bumper enough for a fix and re-chrome.  The previous owner of my car must have drilled the holes and subsequently when the bumper was re-chromed the chrome extends into the holes.  That's why I presumed they were factory.  Yes, forgotten details.

 

I love that rectangular lights are correct and available.  Another project for another time.

 

thanks for all the info and smarts.

[Conserv]

Points taken.  In the mid-90's a van backed into me hooking its trailer ball under my bumper.  The driver pulled forward pulling me with them.  Only a foot or so, but distorted my bumper enough for a fix and re-chrome.  The previous owner of my car must have drilled the holes and subsequently when the bumper was re-chromed the chrome extends into the holes.  That's why I presumed they were factory.  Yes, forgotten details.

 

I love that rectangular lights are correct and available.  Another project for another time.

 

thanks for all the info and smarts.

Yes, Paul, we're just full of ideas to spend your money!

Best regards,

Steve