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Help! Switched heads on my '02 won't run!


Guest Anonymous

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Guest Anonymous

Hi all,

I had to replace a headgasket on my '75 so I did a head swap to an e21 head that was rebuilt. Everything's back together, but when I turn the key it won't fire. I think its getting spark, but do I have the distrib order right? I the dizzy (facing it from passenger fender) set to this order:

_3

1 4

_2

though I have tried every other combonation like

_1

2 3

_4

_2

4 1

_3

_4

3 2

_1

it backfires every arrangement. The plugs are new and the wires are pretty new. The points look good, how can I tell if its getting spark or what do I need to do to make sure the firing order is right? I've never been good with ignition. Also worth mentioning is that when I swapped the dizzy onto my new head, when both heads were at TDC, I had a choice of putting it on so the rotor was slightly ahead or slightly behind the mark, which was aligned on the first head. I chose to put it slightly behind, because I could manually twist it, gently, and it would advance up to the mark before springing back. Could the timing be way off because of this? Thanks

-Joe

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Guest Anonymous

standard.jpg

There is an outside chance that the timing chain

slipped during the swap, check that the cam and

the crank are in sync, then do the same with the

rotor. Spark, gas and compression are the only

other things you need.

There is a mark on the front of the cam, and

another on the crank pulley.

Good luck

Michael

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Guest Anonymous

jaime, I know the order is 1342, if you look all of my orientations are set in that order, but the thing is which orientation on the distributor corresponds to that cylinder? I would imagine the first would be the one pointing towards the rear of the car (general area) because that's where the mark at tdc happens to be. Am I wrong? So

_3

1 4 <----distributor

_2

would be the only one I should try?

This is pissing me off enough to go and put down the money on a pertronix unit.. Argh..

Dubois- thanks for the tip, I'll check that the timing chain is correct tomorrow. I'm scared *&^%less that it might be and I won't be able to remove the timing cover..... the middle bolt that torques the timing cover broke off inside as I was tightening it down.. I have no idea how to get it off if I find that the chain needed adjustment. I don't recall there being much space to get off the cam sprocket bracket bolts without removing the timing cover. Anything else I might be missing? I'm gonna pull the rest of the plugs tomorrow to make sure they are firing too (only tested one). Anything else I might have missed? Thanks everyone!

-Joe

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Guest Anonymous

standard.jpg

the set from Max , made by Kingsford, has numbers on the plug wire ends that attach to the dizzy. this may help you get all the wires to the correct positions. hre you go: once the dizzy iz on correctly, you can get the wires on following this information... standard.jpg here is even better shot of plug orientation on the dizzy:.. standard.jpg this should eliminate that as one problem. if the rotor is on correctly, and the dizzy is in roughly the correct orienttation for basic timing, you should be able to get something going. recheck all grounds, of course, basically go over your spark makers and your fuel delivery: you should get a running engine if you have both happening somewhat correctly. good luck. i know all thise digital pics of nooks and crannies would come in to be useful someday.

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Guest Anonymous

Hmm.. those two seem to have two different orientations. In one the first cyl fires at 180* tdc (towards front of car) and the other 270*(towards pass fender)... I guess I'll try both of those. Thanks

-Joe

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Guest Anonymous

standard.jpg

correct plug wire connection to the dizzy by just twisting the cap in your mind until it resembles your cap. the first pic of the sahara dizzy may be closer to what you are setting- up than the second cappic which is set up for A4 injection. just thought a picture(s) would be of more help than a long description. Hope it not cause confusion.

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Guest Anonymous

1) Take the valve cover off

2) Verify #1 cylinder is at TDC. To do this, you can hook up a compression tester or plug the spark plug hole with some light paper, then crank the motor by hand with a long racket. On the compression stroke, the gauge will show some compression, or the water will blow out of the hole. Once you've found the compression stroke, lay a wooden pencil, or something soft in the spark plug hole that you can see move up or down when the piston reaches TDC. Take your time and make sure you're at (piston) TDC.

3) Verify valve timing with #4 cylinder. The cam lobes for the #4 cylinder should be "teetering" between exhaust and compression. (#4 is 180 off of #1) This verifies timing chain installation.

4) The igintion rotor should now be pointing to the #1 spark plug wire terminal. If its not, turn the distributor until the #1 terminal matches up with the rotor. Anywhere close should be good enough for the engine to run.

5) Position spark plug wires in their correct firing order (1-3-4-2) based on rotor rotation.

That's it! TDC and #4 valve positioning will verify your timing chain installation, and the TDC/rotor/#1 wire will verify your ignition timing. The only problem you may encounter is clearance between the condensor and firewall/engine. If this happens, follow the same procedure above but install the distributor in a different location. It doesn't matter where its installed, all that matters is that the rotor and terminals are positioned correctly in relation to TDC.

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Guest Anonymous

Here's my new developments, or rather anti-developments. I pulled the plugs, no spark. Took off the coil to distrib lead and put the coil to the valve cover bolts, no spark there either. Went out and bought a multi-meter, it read 6 volts across the coil, then it broke so I couldn't try it while I was cranking the motor. There is one plug outlet on the coil on the - side, it says "15" next to it and has no wire connecting to it, meaning 15 amps? What does that outlet plug up to? Also, there are a bunch of terminals/wires the battery side of my motor that I have no clue what they connect to.. they have a blue wire cover over them and seem to go from the + battery terminal area (can't exactly trace them).. but one does come from the starter. They don't reach very far across the engine bay so they must connect to somewhere by the carb/intakes/alternator/etc... still I have no idea where they go. There is what I presume to be an air temp sensor without a lead that connects to the left side of my intake manifold (looking at it from passenger fender), I don't know which lead connects to it, its the only one I haven't connected, but I figure it's trivial until I get spark anyway. Why would my coil be getting voltage but not spark to the ground with the distributor lead? I hate electrical crap on old cars, I understand the theory and I even have the automotive electrical handbook but its always been my shadiest spot on car knowledge. Please help me out, I need my car to run so I can go to college this week! The ignition and everything worked great a week ago when I pulled the head, could anything have broken in that time of just sitting there? Why would it all of a sudden not spark? I've checked for grounds and without anything else to go by I can't determine what is and isn't connected correctly. The points on the distrib cap are clean and the rotor is brand new, as are the plugs and wires for the most part, plugs are gapped correctly. How do I make sure the points are opening correctly.. do I have to crank the motor or turn the crank manually to spin the distrib? Why would the coil only read 6 V? Am I going to have to buy another voltmeter? This project is getting so damn expensive. I should have just paid the $600 to have a shop replace the headgasket and rebuild the head. I've spent almost $300 and probably 50 hours myself on this thing. I really need help

-Joe

-Joe

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Guest Anonymous

Like it or not your gonna have to pull the valve cover and start with the cam timing.Set it at the O T line on the flywheel with,the notch of the cam in the middle of that oil line that runs across the top of the head

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Guest Anonymous

If you're getting voltage to the coil but no spark, I'd guess that the problem is the points. You should be able to set them with a feeler gauge close enough for the engine to start. Just get one of the lobes on the dist shaft to line up with position where the points should open, then set the opening with the guage and the adjustment screw. Your points are probably not opening.

I can't remember what the gap should be off the top of my head. Anyone else?

Dan

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Guest Anonymous

Dan,

Thanks, but the points are opening. I've watched the car crank with the distrib cap off. I could still set the gap I suppose. I also posted my newer results in the "ignition solutions" thread, please check that out if you can. I appreciate all the help!

-Joe

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