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Advice On Sandblasting V.s. Manual Labor


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So I've got this super rusty car that I'd like to restore "the right way" so I don't have to worry about rust ever again. I was originally planning on keeping it mostly assembled while doing rust removal, one section at a time, starting with frame, then moving to interior, then inner/outer body panels, then trunk and engine bay. I had planned on using an angle grinder with a wire brush to strip it down to bare metal. However, I worry that this method won't be enough to adequately deal with all the rust. What do you think?

 

Considering there is so much rust, I wonder if it will be worth the money to pay for sandblasting or soda blasting. My first question is how much should I expect to pay for that kind of work. Alternatively, I'm curious if it would be a good idea to invest in some sandblasting equipment. I worry that it's too messy or technical for me to do myself in my garage.

 

My next question is what to do after the sandblasting. I'm guessing I need to apply some sort of sealer so the rust doesn't come back again. What should I apply? How soon does that need to be applied? I'm assuming once all the rust is removed that there will be quite a few holes that need patching. Is that something that I will have time to do before the sealer/primer is applied? Otherwise, I'm assuming I'll need to grind the primer away to do the patches, then reapply the primer. Is there any risk of "ruining" my nice, clean sandblasting by welding in these new patches?

 

I'm also wondering what to do with the underside of the car after stripping it down to bare metal. I'm sure the sandblaster will have a rotisserie to get at the underside, but I don't have one of those. Is that something I should buy/rent? Or do I need to jack up the car and paint it from underneath? I want to do the paint work myself, so I want to be prepared for how to approach it.

 

My last question, or hesitation, is that I'm pretty sure I'll need to completely disassemble the car in order to sandblast it. I'm still pretty new to working on cars, so my fear is that I'll get it disassembled and won't be able to put it back together. That's why I liked the idea of taking it one section at a time and refreshing each piece as I go. What are your thoughts on that?

 

Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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This is an off topic question. There is nothing here specifically BMW or 02 related. Have you tried other search engines or forums?

Some of the experience you have been asking about cannot be learned from an online forum. You might start with some face time with some industry people.

 

"just because you give a man a Les Paul guitar doesn't mean he will be Eric Clapton in a day"

David Gilmour

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An angle grinder with a brush will drive you more insane than all of us telling you to search.

 

Soda blasting doesn't touch rust- it gets paint off.  Even leaves the pencil marks UNDER the paint, which is cool.

 

First question- is this a 2002

 

Second question- do you have 500 sq. feet to explode this project into?

 

Third question- do you like slow, methodical work, like, say, stripping paint with an angle grinder?

 

I've done 3 of the 4 common methods for a complete- and the easiest is having someone talented soda and sand

blast it.  It's also the least home- project- friendly way, and the most 'expensive' if you're doing the rest of the work yourself.  And it's NOT the fastest, but I found it most gratifying.

And yes, it goes from the blasters to someone who can get a coat of primer on it.

 

Mechanical stripping is messy- but it was the most foolproof for me.  20+ years later, that car still looks good.

 

Chemical stripping is also messy- and I had a few problems, even though we were REALLY careful with the use of the stripper.

 

I've never had a car dipped- I dunno if you still can, without shipping it to China or Mexico.  No- one up here can do it any more.

 

a few answers to a thousand (unasked) questions,

 

t

Edited by TobyB

"I learn best through painful, expensive experience, so I feel like I've gotten my money's worth." MattL

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I agree with Toby, the soda blast then spot sand blasting is the best way to go.  You need to have a long talk with the place that is doing the blasting, if they turn up the pressure and really go at it they WILL destroy the car!  It will warp and bend the flat panels. 

 

If you want the bottom of the car blasted YOU need to bring them the car on a rotisserie.  If you do a chemical strip you need to make sure you get it all neutralized (in the cracks, inside the frame rails etc) or you will get paint bubbles in the new paint. 

 

You need to really research this project, to completely strip a 2002 and do any rust repair then repaint and re-assemble you are going to want new chrome, carpet seats, window and door seals.... the list goes on and on.  If this is not a Tii, Ti, Real Alpina, Cabrio, or Turbo you will be very hard pressed to do the job and come out of it even close to what the car will be worth.  Even a Tii might be pushing it.  My guess is $15-20,000 just for the bodywork and paint, no mechanical, no interior, no chrome.   


I agree with Toby, the soda blast then spot sand blasting is the best way to go.  You need to have a long talk with the place that is doing the blasting, if they turn up the pressure and really go at it they WILL destroy the car!  It will warp and bend the flat panels. 

 

If you want the bottom of the car blasted YOU need to bring them the car on a rotisserie.  If you do a chemical strip you need to make sure you get it all neutralized (in the cracks, inside the frame rails etc) or you will get paint bubbles in the new paint. 

 

You need to really research this project, to completely strip a 2002 and do any rust repair then repaint and re-assemble you are going to want new chrome, carpet seats, window and door seals.... the list goes on and on.  If this is not a Tii, Ti, Real Alpina, Cabrio, or Turbo you will be very hard pressed to do the job and come out of it even close to what the car will be worth.  Even a Tii might be pushing it.  My guess is $15-20,000 just for the bodywork and paint, no mechanical, no interior, no chrome.   

1970 1602 (purchased 12/1974)

1974 2002 Turbo

1988 M5

1986 Euro 325iC

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Soda blasting doesn't touch rust- it gets paint off.

 

Oh, good to know it doesn't deal with rust. Does that mean it's only good for un-rusted cars?

 

First question- is this a 2002? 

 

 

Yes, it's a 1974 BMW 2002. Nothing special, other than it's my project car that I would like to restore.

 

Second question- do you have 500 sq. feet to explode this project into?

 

I've got a small, empty, two car garage, but I have a 1/4 acre of space. Just grass and not covered, but I may invest in some tents if I need to.

 

Third question- do you like slow, methodical work, like, say, stripping paint with an angle grinder?

 

Actually, yes. I'm a very patient person. The idea of slow, methodical work sounds fine. However, it's the idea of spending the time but doing it wrong that worries me.

 

Mechanical stripping is messy- but it was the most foolproof for me.  20+ years later, that car still looks good.

 

In other words, putting in the manual labor with an angle grinder and a wire wheel is just as effective at removing rust as sandblasting? The only difference is time? I guess that's really the heart of my question, whether or not the cheap, manual labor is as effective.

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The only way to eliminate rust is to cut it out and weld in new metal. You must do this for anything structural. I stripped my 2002 body with a combination of an orbital DA sander, sand-blasting (playground sand--I was cheap), wire wheels and heat gun and managed to do it without warping any panels. I did it in my tiny one-car garage and years later I still find remnants of the sand. I should have just had it dipped. Since you have space outside building a tent is the way to go.

 

Also realize that while abrasion (sand, wire wheel, grinder) removes the appearance of rust, it is still down there inside the metal. It needs to be neutralized with phosphoric acid or similar, then encapsulated.

 

To do body and paint work you need a good compressor for the high-flow tools such as the DA sander. I bought a single-stage 80-gallon Ingersol Rand (a bit over $500 delivered), but everyone who knows recommends a dual-stage compressor, at around $1200. In hindsight would have been good, but was not in my budget at a time. As a result I had to pause often when using the DA.

 

As far as neutralizing and encapsulating any rusted areas you have sandblasted/wire wheeled, POR-15 metal cleaner, metal prep and paint is one of the systems of choice. I did the whole car (including underbody) in POR-15. Then I primed the visible surfaces with POR-15 primer (it was blue) and had a body shop shoot the car in Colorado Orange (see my avatar). It came out well, and no rust has come back.

 

Make no mistake--this is a huge project and will take you several times longer than expected. But if you love the car, and do most of the work yourself, you will find it very rewarding.

 

Here's some recent posts to get you started:

 

Where To Start On Restoration?
http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/148146-where-to-start-on-restoration/

 

Por 15 Rust Prevention - Thoughts?
http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/145877-por-15-rust-prevention-thoughts/

 

Do post a few pics so we can see what you have to work with. --Fred

 

post-36969-0-15883700-1394474376_thumb.j

post-36969-0-81522900-1394474382_thumb.j

post-36969-0-47167600-1394474391_thumb.j

Edited by FB73tii

--Fred

'74tii (Colorado) track car

'69ti (Black/Red/Yellow) rolling resto track car

'73tii (Fjord....RIP)

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I have a car at a sandblaster now (Alternative Blasters in Marysville WA). They have done lots of 2002s and other 1960s Euro cars and know all about going easy on the metal--they are using plastic media for paint removal. I've already spot sand blasted some panels, and done some cutting and welding new metal. My fingers are crossed--I pick it up on Wednesday. Cost will be $400-500

 

There is plenty of work to do to strip a car, deal with deeper rust and put it all back together without manually grinding away paint and rust. For me, it is well worth it to do this messy part quickly so I can do the rest myself.

 

My $0.02

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I mad the mistake of completely disassembling my '76 and putting it on a rotisserie to begin the body restoration. Over 2 years, I got some of it done, but was overwhelmed by the scope of the project, knowing I would have to completely redo everything from trim to wiring to fuel and brake plumbing and on and on. I did learn rudimentary MIG welding in the process, and experimented with chemical stripping, heat gun with scraper, wire wheel, rubber paint removal wheel, and soda blasting. The car needed rockers, floors, and spare tire well work. Not surprisingly, every little step took much longer than I expected. I found a place in North Carolina that would acid dip just the bare shell (no doors, trunk, or hood) for $1500. That makes sense for a collector car or a very special 2002, as someone else already said. It did not make sense for a budget 2002 project car, where the goal is to learn restoration and have fun.

 

So when a lady called and offered her running project car '75 to me I jumped on it. It had less rust. I could do it as a running restoration project, and I have stuck to that. I just did a complete suspension removal and rebuild. Next is bodywork, then the engine, then I will swap in the 5-speed. I force myself to not get sidetracked and start taking stuff apart that I am not working on. I get it back to zero after every small project, then go for a drive. It is much more rewarding for me than looking in the garage and seeing something that won't be done for 2 or 3 more years. 

 

For your first restoration and 2002, I say keep it running and tackle it in small chunks. The "Paintucation" DVD set from Eastwood will teach you a lot about what is involved in all aspects of bodywork. I recommend them, and Kevin Tetz (the guy in the DVDs) will answer your emails, even if it is a total noob question. He likes 2002s! Enjoy your car as is while you read, read, and read about 2002s in books, articles, and this website. You will find your priorities change with your knowledge.

 

Good luck and have fun.

 

GregJ

'75 Mintgrun 2002 "Wrigley" project

'76 Polaris 2002 parts car

'69 Turkis 2002 parts car

'70 Awful metallic burgundy over Sahara 2002 parts car

'80 528i driven museum piece "Bob"

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Gregj's advice is spot- on.

 

And it applies to bodywork, too- it might take 4x as long to do it in small chunks, but GETTING IT DONE

is so much better than getting it soda- and- sand blasted, then freaking out and losing motivation.

 

The first complete that I did I did in steps- replaced a quarter, drove it for a month.

Replaced a front fender and straightened the inner, drove it for a winter.

Swapped in a few spare panels on odd weekends, adjusted the fit,

drove it some more. 

 

When I had the money together, I did a complete paint job.  

 

A 2- car garage's fine, if you have the acreage.  Budget a parking space for the second car that

will inevitably appear.  EVERY project I've done- and this includes the E30 race car- had

a spare show up at some point.  

 

That all said, there are very few really WRONG answers for this...

 

Oh, and while I have used 3M strippy pads for about 2 decades and really like them,

a friend got a Dynabrade Dynazip tool.  Stupid expensive, and about the best thing

I've ever used for stripping a mixed- media panel.  Ever.

 

t

Edited by TobyB

"I learn best through painful, expensive experience, so I feel like I've gotten my money's worth." MattL

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To paraphrase what has been said... Don't bite off more than you can chew. Everything sounds easy on the internet. Most people exaggerate.

Lots of rust... I bet you would save a lot of time and money selling your car, and paying more for a sorted rust free car.

1973 2002Tii (Pacific Blue)

1984 911 3.2 Carrera (Platnum Metallic)

2009 328xi (Black Sapphire Metallic)

2010 Mazda Speed3 (Black Metallic)

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  • 2 months later...

I'm actually right where Greg was (A 76, pulled apart on a rotisserie I made) and I have sort of the same feelings about it. I'm also where you are, deciding on the best way to strip the car to spray epoxy primer. I have a 2 car garage, half of which is built into a paint booth (10x20) but I guess it can be used for sandblasting if I clean well after. I have the equipment to sandblast, as well as with power tools. All of the rust below the pillars has been repaired, and I'm really trying to turn this back into a project that I'm able to drive.

I'm thinking the best option for me, is to only use blasting for those tight spaces (like where the frame rails meet the firewall) and using 3M bristle discs for the flat surfaces.

Instagram: iliketurbos

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