engine and drivetrain Possible Head Gasket Revisited

[Texasyeti]

I had a thread a few months ago as I was concerned about the head gasket on my 74 tii. This is a new-to-me car I picked up from a classic car consigner in Fort Worth, Texas. One owner car with LOTS of records. It had engine work done previously which included a rehone and rering and the head redone.

 

Car ran when I got it and initial dipstick and radiator coolant / cap inspection revealed nothing.

 

Car has been driven maybe 2 miles as the brake calipers were frozen. I was about halfway through my refurbishment of the front end when I found milky oil on the dipstick.

 

The faq suggested that I just retorque the head, change fluids, and drive it to see what is happening. A compression test was also recommended as well.

 

Well, I did a little more investigation yesterday:

 

At first glance, the head looked really clean to me. No goop or slop anywhere:

 

 

 

Then I looked closer:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is bright green coolant under there. Nice and slippery consistency.

 

So, my natural tendency is to just dive in and begin a head gasket replacement. There's lots to do on this engine as oil is everywhere from the distributor, exhaust manifold studs, oil pan, etc. Eventually all of this will have to be done so while I am here it might be a good time.

 

Thoughts?

[TobyB]

Right up until I saw the radiator, I was gonna say 'Drive it hard for a week and then see how things look' but the gunk

in the radiator doesn't look so good.

 

The only saving grace would be if the work was JUST done, and there had been oil that leaked into the

coolant passages when the head was off.

 

But I'd still change coolant, change oil, then drive it a significant distance (get it nice and hot) and then check again.

Certainly, retorque first.

 

t

[Hans]

Perhaps a cooling system flush?

[Texasyeti]

The headwork and rering was done in March

1988 at 44,500. Gotta love previous owners who were apparently obsessive about keeping documentation. 

 

Odometer shows 11,XXX now. I'm thinking 111, XXX on the car as it sat for quite a while (7 years or so?).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FB73tii]

I'm with Toby, looked like it could just be the effect of condensation sitting a long time, but the radiator looks ugly. How do the spark plugs look? If one is really clean that can point to head gasket, or of course anti-freeze on the plug.

 

I think there is nothing to loose by draining and flushing the cooling system, putting in new oil and filter, and taking it on a nice long drive. Then let it sit overnight, check dipstick and oil fill cap for white scunge in the morning. Then start it and see if the exhaust is really white (steam). If driven too much then water in the oil will reduce lubrication and be bad for the engine, but a few drives should be fine, especially with you keeping a close eye on it. --Fred

[TobyB]

...where did they get $25 rings????

 

and no con- rod bearings....

 

?

 

t

Edited January 11, 2014 by TobyB

[Texasyeti]

...where did they get $25 rings????

 

and no con- rod bearings....

 

?

 

t

 

It's a BMW part number and the work was done in 1988. The good old days?

 

My understanding was that the bores looked good so they honed it and installed standard pistons. No bottom end work done.

[Texasyeti]

Wanted to revive this thread as I am almost finished with the brakes and getting the fuel delivery system sorted. Based on the advice above, I was planning on doing cooling system flush and an oil change and then see how she does.

 

I drained the coolant and here it is (It was a pretty dirty pan with a few leaves, a twig, etc.:

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

I pulled the plugs. They seemed to look pretty good. Might look a LITTLE lean but at least they are consistent and none of them look like they have been steam cleaned.

 

 

 

Thoughts?

Edited April 3, 2014 by Texasyeti

[FB73tii]

Car ran when I got it and initial dipstick and radiator coolant / cap inspection revealed nothing. Car has been driven maybe 2 miles as the brake calipers were frozen. I was about halfway through my refurbishment of the front end when I found milky oil on the dipstick.

 

The faq suggested that I just retorque the head, change fluids, and drive it to see what is happening. A compression test was also recommended as well.

 

What were the results of the compression test? Even if you don't want to start the engine yet or drive the car to a shop a cold compression test will tell you something. Compression gauges are cheap, useful tools.

 

If this car had been driven regularly I would say you have a problem, but since it has likely sat for a long time the milkyness in the head area could just be condensation. That radiator goop looks horrible--but it could be something wierd, like the wrong coolant used at some point. My understanding is that if "long-life coolant" (going from memory here, it may be pink or orange) is mixed with normal coolant it will turn to goop.

 

If it was me I would put in new coolant (or just water per Ray below) and oil and fire it up. If it is a bad head gasket nothing catastrophic will happen--as long as the cylinders are not filled with coolant which could lead to hyro-locking, but if the radiator remained full since last running that would not be the case. As previously mentioned, drive it a bit, let it cool. Then check the oil filler cap for white goop--if there is none fire up again and look for white smoke. If there is none drive some more and keep an eye on things.

 

Best of luck--Fred

 

EDIT: Here is some antifreeze info:

Extended Life (Organic Acid Technology, or OAT) antifreeze is NOT compatible with conventional (inorganic acid technology, or IAT) antifreeze.  A chemical reaction is caused when the carboxylate salts are mixed with the inorganic salts and caustics found in conventional antifreeze.  If they are mixed, the antifreeze can become cloudy, precipitation can generate and the coolant will lose it’s extended life properties.

http://foryourbusiness.eco-freez.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=118&Itemid=134

 

Edited April 3, 2014 by FB73tii

[ray_]

Those plugs look fine to me.

 

You might just run water after flushing. I think that'd be okay for the check and maybe save you some coolant expense.

 

Good luck,

[Texasyeti]

What were the results of the compression test? Even if you don't want to start the engine yet or drive the car to a shop a cold compression test will tell you something. Compression gauges are cheap, useful tools.

 

If this car had been driven regularly I would say you have a problem, but since it has likely sat for a long time the milkyness in the head area could just be condensation. That radiator goop looks horrible--but it could be something wierd, like the wrong coolant used at some point. My understanding is that if "long-life coolant" (going from memory here, it may be pink or orange) is mixed with normal coolant it will turn to goop.

The car had definitely sat for awhile - at least 5 years. I am going go get a compression test kit today and see what I can find out there.

Thanks for the assist fellas!

[Texasyeti]

Great news!

 

Did a compression test today, a very poorly handled test, but the numbers look pretty good to me.

 

I did it completely wrong as I had a cold engine, all the plugs were tight in the head (removed and replaced as I tested each cylinder), I didn't touch the throttle, and still got 125psi for (from front to rear of engine) for the first two cylinders, 122 for the third cylinder, and 135 for the fourth. Did the test twice and got the same results. Held the engine on for 5 rotations each time.

 

Going to flush the cooling system tomorrow and we are almost ready to drive!

Edited April 6, 2014 by Texasyeti

[thehackmechanic]

If it's going to be a knock-around-town car, sure, flush it and see what it does, but I think the odds are overwhelming that there's a head gasket replacement in your future, particularly if you want to drive the car any distance  without the threat of having the HG fail while you're on the road.

[Texasyeti]

If it's going to be a knock-around-town car, sure, flush it and see what it does, but I think the odds are overwhelming that there's a head gasket replacement in your future, particularly if you want to drive the car any distance  without the threat of having the HG fail while you're on the road.

 

Yeah, maybe so. Top end was done about 50k ago so maybe I am in good shape for a while. I would like to have a reliable car worth of an extended road trip so a preemptive HG job might be in her future.