Jump to content

Creating Low End Power In A 2002?


mattio523

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

I'm planning on building a 2002 with my dad sometime in the very near future. We've assembled a parts list (sort of) with a little help from an email to Ireland Engineering. So far, we have this:

 

Engine Modifications:
 
Weber 38 Downdraft
 
Cast Pistons for 1.8i Head -90 mm bore, 9.5:1 CR
 
Camshaft - Schrick 284 or 292
 
Shorty Header for 2002
 
Stainless Steel Exhaust System
 
 
Suspension/Steering Modifications:

IE Spring and Swaybar Kit (Stage 2) 
 
Front Urethane Bushing Kit
 
Rear Urethane Bushing Kit
 
Fixed Front Camber Plates
 
Yes, I know. Lots of IE parts. Anyway, I decided to seek your help for this matter. I want to make sure that my car will have lots of power (140-150 hp/tq, which these parts should produce) in both the low and high RPMs. I care more about the low ones though - faster acceleration and 0-60 time. I'm looking to be around 7 seconds to 60. However, if all my power is in the high RPMs, the power won't be very usable acceleration-wise, because I'll have to get the car up to a high RPM before changing gears. So, do you guys think that this will produce lots of power in the low end, hopefully peak torque low and hold it through the RPMs, or know of any ways to get it to do that?
 
I also have a few questions, unrelated to my torque addiction.
 
1. No shocks in the front? Just a different name? This is confusing me. 
 
2. Limited slip differential. Do they exist, and if so, how can I get one?
 
 
Thanks guys!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 53
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

For the torque - others with more experience can answer, but my understanding is that your proposed setup will produce good low-end power. IE would be a great source for this knowledge and if this is what they are recommending for it then I'd go with that.

 

There are a TON of posts on here about how to get different types of power out of the M10.

 

As to your other questions:

  • The fronts; different name but same purpose.
  • Yes there are LSD's available. There was a great write-up about them on here recently. The one a lot of people run (myself included) is the 3.91 from a 320I (I think mine came from a 1981?). Depending on your current diff and your speedo ratio you end up with a speedo that is off until you re-gear it. Do a "Differential" search and you should get some great info.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

there is an article on differentials in the "Articles" section of this board...

i doubt that engine receipe will get you 140. maybe 120.

technically there are no shocks on either end. they are dampers. in they rear they external and commonly called shocks. in the front they are internal to the mcpherson strut and are commonly called inserts.

and yes, the search function is your best friend. tons of threads on M10 engine options, diffs and suspensions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a similar engine build in my '73 (9.5 pistons, 284 Schrick) but with a 32/36 Weber and it has plenty of low end grunt--more, I think that it would have with a 292 cam.  I think your hp estimate is a bit optimistic, as are your 0-60 times are unless you use a 4.11 diff

 

I still have a 3.64 diff, and my acceleration is just fine--and mated to an OD 5 speed it only turns 3200 rpm at 70 (vs 4000) so is much more relaxed on the highway.  

 

If you go to a 3.90 limited slip (3.64s are available, but hard to find) and a 5 speed, your OD fifth gear will be about the same revs as 4th in a 4 speed mated to a 3.64 diff.  If you do go with a 3.90 diff, find a speedometer from a '76--they were equipped with a 3.90 open diff, so your speedo will be much more accurate.  

 

mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

150 HP in a BMW 2002 is not going to do 0-60 MPH in 7 seconds. If that is really what you want then you need to look at power-to-weight, aerodynamic drag and final drive ratio to figure out what HP you need. But really a 2002 is for the curves, not straightaways, IMHO. There are people that drag race them, but a small-block V8 would be a lot less expensive than a built M10, and have the torque down low.

Here are some BMW 2002 0-60 times from the Internet:

BMW 2002tii
Horsepower @ RPM:   130 @ 5700
Torque @ RPM:           130 @ 4500
0-60 time:                     9.8 sec. (Est.)
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/1972-1974-bmw-2002tii-ar159936.html

Zero-sixty times
1971 BMW 1600           11.5  sec.
1968 BMW 2002           11.2 sec.
1973 BMW 2002 tii         9.7 sec.
1973 BMW 2002 Turbo  7.4 sec.
http://www.zeroto60times.com/BMW-Bimmer-0-60-mph-Times.html

So even with a 2002 factory turbo at 170 crank HP you won't hit your mark. Getting more HP out of a naturally aspirated M10 engine generally raises the RPM for peak torque and HP. Adding displacement (2.2 stroker) helps with low end, but that alone won't get you there.

 

As said above, a high-ratio differential will improve acceleration off the line. I have a 4.45:1 diff in my track car with a 5-spd OD.

 

Others with experience can chime in, but I think you are looking at a supercharger or aftermarket turbo to hit your 0-60 time, and that will be a custom solution, requiring fabrication and $$. A fun project if you are up to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...and a technical concern-

 

the 1.8i pistons are for a 1.8 crank, which has a shorter throw.  Since the 1.8 and the 2l engines use the same rods,

the pins are lower in the pistion.  If you try to use 1.8i pistions with a 2l crank, they pop out the top of the block,

which just doesn't work.

 

If you're worried about torque, you really want the 2l crank.  In fact, search 'stroker S14' to see about getting an even

longer stroke- which will help torque, too.

 

7 seconds?  got turbo?

 

t

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Dev02, on 02 Jan 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

 

For the torque - others with more experience can answer, but my understanding is that your proposed setup will produce good low-end power. IE would be a great source for this knowledge and if this is what they are recommending for it then I'd go with that.

 

There are a TON of posts on here about how to get different types of power out of the M10.

 

As to your other questions:

  • The fronts; different name but same purpose.
  • Yes there are LSD's available. There was a great write-up about them on here recently. The one a lot of people run (myself included) is the 3.91 from a 320I (I think mine came from a 1981?). Depending on your current diff and your speedo ratio you end up with a speedo that is off until you re-gear it. Do a "Differential" search and you should get some great info.

 

I'll have a look at the articles - thanks. IE said this would produce 130-140 hp, but didn't say where in the power band it would be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there is an article on differentials in the "Articles" section of this board...

i doubt that engine receipe will get you 140. maybe 120.

technically there are no shocks on either end. they are dampers. in they rear they external and commonly called shocks. in the front they are internal to the mcpherson strut and are commonly called inserts.

and yes, the search function is your best friend. tons of threads on M10 engine options, diffs and suspensions.

Thanks - I understand the suspension thing a little better now. IE said this would produce 130-140 hp - so I hope it does. I'll look around the FAQ as well.

 

Also, where did you buy the S14 for your car? That's something we've been thinking of doing instead of modding an M10.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just gonna raise my usual "M20 or Nitrous will probably get you there easily and cheaper" flag...

Low end torque and 4 cylinders don't usually go hand in hand. If you are shooting for 140hp and daily driven, look into an M42 swap I'm sure it would get you there and not sacrifice any drivability on the street.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a similar engine build in my '73 (9.5 pistons, 284 Schrick) but with a 32/36 Weber and it has plenty of low end grunt--more, I think that it would have with a 292 cam.  I think your hp estimate is a bit optimistic, as are your 0-60 times are unless you use a 4.11 diff

 

I still have a 3.64 diff, and my acceleration is just fine--and mated to an OD 5 speed it only turns 3200 rpm at 70 (vs 4000) so is much more relaxed on the highway.  

 

If you go to a 3.90 limited slip (3.64s are available, but hard to find) and a 5 speed, your OD fifth gear will be about the same revs as 4th in a 4 speed mated to a 3.64 diff.  If you do go with a 3.90 diff, find a speedometer from a '76--they were equipped with a 3.90 open diff, so your speedo will be much more accurate.  

 

mike

IE said that those parts would produce that power, so I'm just going off their estimate. I'm going to use the 292 cam. Also, What kind of pistons do you have? Apparently the ones I've chosen won't fit in the 2.0L M10. The 0-60 time is something I've cared less and less about as I think about it, because it's just a time - it's more about the feeling.

 

150 HP in a BMW 2002 is not going to do 0-60 MPH in 7 seconds. If that is really what you want then you need to look at power-to-weight, aerodynamic drag and final drive ratio to figure out what HP you need. But really a 2002 is for the curves, not straightaways, IMHO. There are people that drag race them, but a small-block V8 would be a lot less expensive than a built M10, and have the torque down low.

Here are some BMW 2002 0-60 times from the Internet:

BMW 2002tii

Horsepower @ RPM:   130 @ 5700

Torque @ RPM:           130 @ 4500

0-60 time:                     9.8 sec. (Est.)

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/1972-1974-bmw-2002tii-ar159936.html

Zero-sixty times

1971 BMW 1600           11.5  sec.

1968 BMW 2002           11.2 sec.

1973 BMW 2002 tii         9.7 sec.

1973 BMW 2002 Turbo  7.4 sec.

http://www.zeroto60times.com/BMW-Bimmer-0-60-mph-Times.html

So even with a 2002 factory turbo at 170 crank HP you won't hit your mark. Getting more HP out of a naturally aspirated M10 engine generally raises the RPM for peak torque and HP. Adding displacement (2.2 stroker) helps with low end, but that alone won't get you there.

 

As said above, a high-ratio differential will improve acceleration off the line. I have a 4.45:1 diff in my track car with a 5-spd OD.

 

Others with experience can chime in, but I think you are looking at a supercharger or aftermarket turbo to hit your 0-60 time, and that will be a custom solution, requiring fabrication and $$. A fun project if you are up to it.

7 seconds seems ambitious now that I think about it. I really just want the car to be exciting and fun to drive - with good power. I don't really care about the 0-60 time, just the feeling. 

 

...and a technical concern-

 

the 1.8i pistons are for a 1.8 crank, which has a shorter throw.  Since the 1.8 and the 2l engines use the same rods,

the pins are lower in the pistion.  If you try to use 1.8i pistions with a 2l crank, they pop out the top of the block,

which just doesn't work.

 

If you're worried about torque, you really want the 2l crank.  In fact, search 'stroker S14' to see about getting an even

longer stroke- which will help torque, too.

 

7 seconds?  got turbo?

 

t

I'm going to look for different pistons. Thanks for giving me the heads up. I'll find pistons for the M10 - which I assume uses the 2l crank? 7 seconds now seems dumb, and a little ambitious.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just gonna raise my usual "M20 or Nitrous will probably get you there easily and cheaper" flag...

Low end torque and 4 cylinders don't usually go hand in hand. If you are shooting for 140hp and daily driven, look into an M42 swap I'm sure it would get you there and not sacrifice any drivability on the street.

I've been thinking of doing an M42, M20, or even S14 swap. If that would be easier for a daily driver, I'll have to do that, because I'm going to drive it every day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just gonna raise my usual "M20 or Nitrous will probably get you there easily and cheaper" flag...

Low end torque and 4 cylinders don't usually go hand in hand. If you are shooting for 140hp and daily driven, look into an M42 swap I'm sure it would get you there and not sacrifice any drivability on the street.

This is what I was thinking. M42 with mild cam and let er go. M10 with the OP's formula wont make what the OP is asking for.

 

And you can drive an M10 everyday. I do...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is what I was thinking. M42 with mild cam and let er go. M10 with the OP's formula wont make what the OP is asking for.

 

And you can drive an M10 everyday. I do...

I think the M42 seems like a better option now - I was looking into buying one with the swap already done but the guy hasn't contacted me back in a while after we emailed back and forth a couple times. I wasn't saying that the M10 would be bad on the street, but the M10 with all the upgrades I listed wouldn't be optimal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the M42 seems like a better option now - I was looking into buying one with the swap already done but the guy hasn't contacted me back in a while after we emailed back and forth a couple times. I wasn't saying that the M10 would be bad on the street, but the M10 with all the upgrades I listed wouldn't be optimal.

 

Just depends on what road you want to go. Either way time has to be spent. It mostly comes down to what kid of work do you want to do. An M42 swap needs new motor mounts, probably relocated tranny mount, new drive shaft, handful of wiring, battery moved to trunk, and a handful of other little things. Where as with an M10 it's all bolt up unless you change trannies, but you have to understand carburetor tuning and be willing to get it dialed in, as well as take a hit in your MPG numbers because it's carbed. But in all honesty, I've thought about building an M42 powered 02 :lol:  So either way, just remember you've got a lot of work ahead of you. And in all honesty, a stock motored 02 is pretty fun!  ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just depends on what road you want to go. Either way time has to be spent. It mostly comes down to what kid of work do you want to do. An M42 swap needs new motor mounts, probably relocated tranny mount, new drive shaft, handful of wiring, battery moved to trunk, and a handful of other little things. Where as with an M10 it's all bolt up unless you change trannies, but you have to understand carburetor tuning and be willing to get it dialed in, as well as take a hit in your MPG numbers because it's carbed. But in all honesty, I've thought about building an M42 powered 02 :lol:  So either way, just remember you've got a lot of work ahead of you. And in all honesty, a stock motored 02 is pretty fun!  ;)

It's a lot to think about. I'll weigh the pros and cons of everything and figure it all out eventually. The M42 does seem like my best option though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


  • Upcoming Events

×
×
  • Create New...